Is Pennzoil Platinum enough?

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Like it or not, methodology is fair game. So are claims, especially if they are made without evidence.

Ego has no place here. If you can't accept that what you claim is not above question, you need to take a hard look at yourself.

If you don't make mistakes you're doing it wrong.

If you don't correct your mistake you're doing it really wrong.

If you can't accept that you're mistaken, you're not doing it at all.
 
I saw falcons pics. Interesting indeed. Now there can be a few lines of thought in his particular experience. First we can say that over 22000 miles falcon used auto RX and it did nothing,then when he used pennzoil there was a substantial amount of cleaning.
Second is that the auto RX loosened all that crud and the run of pennzoil just washed all that stuff off.
Third is that pennzoil might be the perfect match for auto RX and the 2 combined to clean significantly,and the pennzoil wouldn't be able to clean that well on its own. I don't remember if falcon posted which oils he used when using the auto RX.
I saw the pics so I know the pennzoil did something. What exactly I don't know but I'm glad he posted his experience with certain products.
I think a spotless engine is over rated. If there sent any sludge impeding oil flow do deposits even matter? Unless they are on the intake or exhaust valves I just don't see how deposits on a cam matter.
I'm guilty of using some additives and continue to use them because they work for me,which is what this forum is all about. Members share their experiences and other members glean knowledge from the sharing of these experiences. I for one don't need scientific testing nor do I feel the need to challenge another members experiences that they have chosen to share.
We have members who add nothing to a thread other than conflict,and I see no other reason for the post than to just be a jerk. Whether its a thread where members are sharing experiences about an additive and some (censored)just has to post snake oil,moo juice whatever,or its a post that asks for scientific proof.
LIKE SERIOUSLY. If you have nothing to add then just don't add.
I want to read about experiences,positive and negative,so if I choose to use a product I know what I has done,and hasn't been able to do. That's called learning from others,which is why I'm here.
As far as pennzoil and its cleaning ability I've got a 4.6 4V now in my mustang. Engine has had nothing but PYB at 5000km intervals and I have pics under the VC and its spotless. Like brand new. Now at that interval I think most any oil can keep that engine clean but that's my thoughts,I KNOW that PYB did keep it factory clean.
I think deposits in an engine will dissolve based on chemistry. One brand may not be able to remove some deposits where others excel at it,and vice versa,so members sharing their experience is invaluable because their experience may direct me towards something that helps me.
And I don't need a scientist
 
Trajan, you can say whatever you want about me. I don't read your posts. I have you on ignore. Keep saying whatever you want until a moderator talks to you.

Let us go back to the beginning of this post and maybe restore some sanity here. And you notice that I am not attacking anybody.

I was reading the material in the post 'I tried Auto-RX for 1,500 miles...' and I noticed Falcon_LS's photographs. I was stunned how much the Pennzoil Platinum had cleaned the engine in one 3,800 mile oil change. I have no evidence that Falcon_LS faked the photographs. I will assume that his photographs are accurate. I was surprised that nobody seemed to comment all that much on what he had found out.

So I started this post to bring to the attention of other people what I think may be something important. Various people here are trying to find ways to safety and effectively clean their engines, and they also try to find out about useful oil supplements. Isn't that what the Oil Additives Section is for? I thought I was doing a service to others here. If Pennzoil Platinum really cleans so well maybe that is a potential answer for people here to get their engines clean and keep them clean.

I did some more investigation. I went to the Pennzoil website and they have engine sequence tests to prove that Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra clean. I seriously doubt that a major corporation like Pennzoil is going to fake engine sequence testing. Now we all know about advertising and advertising can be misleading. But I have to assume the engine sequence testing is accurate.

We also have some testing that was done by electrolover.

So we already have a considerable amount of evidence. I don't see why I have to provide some sort of additional evidence to what we already have. I did what I was trying to do-I bought to the attention of others something that I thought might be important information.

This sums it up and I did not attack anybody.
 
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I'm not gonna quote your whole post Clevy, but I will state that I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Each oil has its own add pack and each add pack will clean differently. Take my 2000 Corolla, for example:

Royal Purple - The fill for my first OCI with this car. I went with this because my 99 Corolla ran whisper quiet on it once I had it cleaned up. The 2000 didn't run as quiet on it, but it darkened up pretty quick due to the mess inside the engine. Due to the price, I decided to switch. Dark and opaque when changed at 3000.

Pennzoil Platinum - I ran this next because it seemed to do a [censored] of a job cleaning up the 99. Id seemed to do a [censored] of a job on the 2000, as well. It darkened within 200 miles and the engine quieted down a lot withing 500. Dark and opaque when changed at 2500.

Pennzoil Ultra - I tried this next, figuring that its stronger add pack would clean more than PP did. It didn't darken but maybe a shade or two in 2000 miles. It was black as a bottle of Coke and becoming opaque a few miles after adding 1/2qt of MMO. The engine quieted down a lot after the MMO, as well. PU + MMO left a considerable amount of varnish behind; I'll address this in a moment. Dark and slightly opaque when changed at 2750.

Rotella T6 - Running this now. I pulled the VC for inspection, cleaning, and a coat of enamel immediately before putting this in the sump. I pulled it again to inspect the VVT-i gear 56.5 miles later and the varnish was already mostly gone.

What I'm getting at is that it seems like each oil (and the MMO) cleaned something the oils before it didn't. The RP and PP definitely did some cleaning on their own. The PU didn't seem to do much on its own, probably because the PP before it, having similar detergent and dispersant additives to the PU, cleaned up everything the PU wold have cleaned. The high phosphorus content of the MMO cleaned up some deposits the RP, PP, and PU didn't target. None of that targeted the varnish all that effectively, but the T6 seems to be handling that just fine.

My next fill will probably be RP, the PP again, then T6 again, this time thinned with MMO rather than a synthetic 0w20, lather, rinse, repeat. What one leaves behind, the other two will clean up. The RP and T6 will maintain ZDDP plating, the T6 will maintain moly plating, and the rotation of the different detergent and dispersant packs will prevent anything from having time to build up. That's my theory, at least; I'll consider it proven if my next few OCIs after this one don't darken up like the last few.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I thought I was doing a service to others here.


So did I. Some people don't know how to appreciate the efforts of others, though.
 
Mystic, here are some of the words you have been using:

If
Assume
Probably
Think
Claim

These words do not offer any proof. As far as FalconS pics go these are from his thread back in September of 2009, I guess you did not see that thread.

You say that you have not seen any evidence of auto-rx working, you have used auto-rx, why did you stop using the product. You said that you assumed your engine is dirty, what makes you think your engine is dirty, did you look into your oil fill hole.

I have been reading 4 threads on here that show auto-rx does increase compression, probably from cleaning the ring packs, and you did post in one of the threads. All 4 of the threads show similar gains in compression from using auto-rx in various engines.

I do believe that Pennzoil Platinum can clean up an engine, but it is just a belief, I cannot prove that Pennzoil Platinum does any cleaning.

I do sense that Mystic has a problem with auto-rx and its not because the product does or does not work.

Maybe auto-rx does not clean up junk in the Valvetrain, it sometimes may stop oil leaks or oil burning or maybe it doesn't. But this product definetly cleans up ring packs, will Pennzoil Platinum or other oil additives clean up the ring packs, I have not seen any threads that show before and after compression results.I might think they will, meaning Pennzoil Platinum and these other oil additives, but so far I have only seen proof of ring pack cleaning from 4 auto-rx threads.
 
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: Vikas
anybody kind enough to post the url to the pictures thread?


They are on page 10 of the "ARX for 1,500 miles" thread.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2903853&page=10


Yeah, but as pointed out above, they're from 2009. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1636654&page=4

And from the same thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1636654&page=5

And from a newer one: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1929212&page=6
 
V8man, I really do not want to discuss Auto-RX anymore myself. I get sick and tired of all of the bickering over Auto-RX. Don't you?

Anyway, if there are too many ifs, assumes, probably, etc., in my posts, I will say this-engine sequence tests are precise and scientific evidence. You can go to the Pennzoil website to find out about the engine sequence tests that Pennzoil did to demonstrate the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum motor oils. Those engine sequence tests are good enough evidence for me.

Let me know when you come across an engine sequence test from a reputable organization proving that Auto-RX cleans.

We all know that advertising can be misleading. And Pennzoil of course used those engine sequence tests in advertising. But I very seriously doubt that they would fake the engine sequence testing.

Thjose engine sequence tests are probably better evidence than any evidence you will find for the cleaning ability of any engine cleaner you will read about here at bitgo. And yes V8man, I said probably. I don't know for a fact. But show me the engine sequence tests proving the cleaning ability of any of these cleaning supplements.
 
Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
I'm not gonna quote your whole post Clevy, but I will state that I agree with it wholeheartedly.

Each oil has its own add pack and each add pack will clean differently. Take my 2000 Corolla, for example:

Royal Purple - The fill for my first OCI with this car. I went with this because my 99 Corolla ran whisper quiet on it once I had it cleaned up. The 2000 didn't run as quiet on it, but it darkened up pretty quick due to the mess inside the engine. Due to the price, I decided to switch. Dark and opaque when changed at 3000.

Pennzoil Platinum - I ran this next because it seemed to do a [censored] of a job cleaning up the 99. Id seemed to do a [censored] of a job on the 2000, as well. It darkened within 200 miles and the engine quieted down a lot withing 500. Dark and opaque when changed at 2500.

Pennzoil Ultra - I tried this next, figuring that its stronger add pack would clean more than PP did. It didn't darken but maybe a shade or two in 2000 miles. It was black as a bottle of Coke and becoming opaque a few miles after adding 1/2qt of MMO. The engine quieted down a lot after the MMO, as well. PU + MMO left a considerable amount of varnish behind; I'll address this in a moment. Dark and slightly opaque when changed at 2750.

Rotella T6 - Running this now. I pulled the VC for inspection, cleaning, and a coat of enamel immediately before putting this in the sump. I pulled it again to inspect the VVT-i gear 56.5 miles later and the varnish was already mostly gone.

What I'm getting at is that it seems like each oil (and the MMO) cleaned something the oils before it didn't. The RP and PP definitely did some cleaning on their own. The PU didn't seem to do much on its own, probably because the PP before it, having similar detergent and dispersant additives to the PU, cleaned up everything the PU wold have cleaned. The high phosphorus content of the MMO cleaned up some deposits the RP, PP, and PU didn't target. None of that targeted the varnish all that effectively, but the T6 seems to be handling that just fine.

My next fill will probably be RP, the PP again, then T6 again, this time thinned with MMO rather than a synthetic 0w20, lather, rinse, repeat. What one leaves behind, the other two will clean up. The RP and T6 will maintain ZDDP plating, the T6 will maintain moly plating, and the rotation of the different detergent and dispersant packs will prevent anything from having time to build up. That's my theory, at least; I'll consider it proven if my next few OCIs after this one don't darken up like the last few.


I think that's a good idea. The different chemistries may help clean what the other left behind.

Originally Posted By: KeMBro2012
Originally Posted By: Mystic
I thought I was doing a service to others here.


So did I. Some people don't know how to appreciate the efforts of others, though.


Mystic. You are. Ignore the naysayers. I read your posts and am always interested in the EXPERIENCES of other members.

Ken. I find it very interesting that mmo had that effect. It's cheap and it seems to work well for most who use it. I'm not that anal about clean however if I thought there was significant build up I would use mmo in a heartbeat.
Thanks for sharing guys
 
Thanks a lot Clevy. Things have changed here over the years at bitgo. I thought about leaving a few times just like Johnny and many others. Instead of friendly debates and discussions a lot of people here like to attack other people personally instead of presenting alternative views. I guess they never took debate in high school or college. There is a name for that-attacking the person rather than the subject matter, but I can't remember all of that stuff now.

I realize that information (including the photographs) that was supplied by Falcon_LS is kind of dated but the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Platinum still impressed me, and it seemed like few people had noticed that. Although the engine was not completely clean of course the Pennzoil Platinum did a remarkable job in 3,800 miles.

It seems to me that regardless whether a person wants to use Pennzoil Platinum by itself or Pennzoil Platinum with MMO, Kreen, or Neutra, there should be some effective cleaning accomplished in the engine.

I am sure a lot of you are starting to notice that a certain individual here likes to follow me around and launch attacks on anything I say. I am hoping that a moderator notices that someday.

I really did start this post with the intention of doing a service to others here. If Pennzoil Platinum really does clean as well as it seems a lot of people could get their engines cleaned. I did not do it just because I am a Pennzoil fan or anything like that. I was a Pennzoil fan a long time ago and before I came to this website I was influenced by a lot of auto mechanics who encouraged me to use Valvoline. A surprising number of mechanics use Valvoline. I even heard the old stories about Pennzoil causing sludge and all of that. And after I came here to bitgo I read discussions about Halvoline motor oil and I used it for a long time. So actually I have not been a Pennzoil guy for a long time. Just in case somebody accuses me of being a Pennzoil guy.
 
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I find it hard to believe the Pennzoil website have these findings.How do we know the engine is clean??? Say the oil fill hole and I will hang up!
12.gif

Originally Posted By: Mystic
There is one other thing. Assuming that Pennzoil Platinum or Pennzoil Ultra (if you can find it) will clean an engine, some say that no oil will clean the rings. So maybe a person would still need something, like MMO in the gasoline or BG-44K to really get the entire engine clean. The upper part of the engine might need a special cleaner.

At the Pennzoil website they claim that in actual testing the Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum outperformed other motor oils such as Mobil 1 and Valvoline Synpower and Castrol Edge in cleaning. The Pennzoil Ultra outperformed the Pennzoil Platinum. Also, both of those outperformed Pennzoil conventional motor oil in cleaning.
 
Originally Posted By: Mystic
V8man, I really do not want to discuss Auto-RX anymore myself. I get sick and tired of all of the bickering over Auto-RX. Don't you?

Anyway, if there are too many ifs, assumes, probably, etc., in my posts, I will say this-engine sequence tests are precise and scientific evidence. You can go to the Pennzoil website to find out about the engine sequence tests that Pennzoil did to demonstrate the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Ultra and Pennzoil Platinum motor oils. Those engine sequence tests are good enough evidence for me.

Let me know when you come across an engine sequence test from a reputable organization proving that Auto-RX cleans.

We all know that advertising can be misleading. And Pennzoil of course used those engine sequence tests in advertising. But I very seriously doubt that they would fake the engine sequence testing.

Thjose engine sequence tests are probably better evidence than any evidence you will find for the cleaning ability of any engine cleaner you will read about here at bitgo. And yes V8man, I said probably. I don't know for a fact. But show me the engine sequence tests proving the cleaning ability of any of these cleaning supplements.


Mystic, there is an old thread on here called What additive would you be and why, you and another member were the only ones that responded.

Your response: My favorite additive is Auto-Rx because as far as I have been able to determine, it works. I think the only additives we should be interested in are the ones that can be demonstrated to work. I don't care how 'sexy' an additive is or how long it has been around, or about four ball tests and Falex tests that as far as I can determine really prove nothing about a motor oil or oil supplement. I care if a product works.

In the end, the products that stick around will be the ones that work.

Auto-Rx worked for you, and if four ball tests and Falex tests really do not prove anything in your eyes then these tests by Pennzoil really do not prove that PP will clean an engine.

When you were using auto-rx did you ask for any testing like you are doing now. You say that you do not want to discuss auto-rx anymore, yet you bring up Falcon's pics that show a dirty valvetrain and he did use auto-rx and then he used Pennzoil Platinum. You have been involved in at least another thread back in the day that showed that auto-rx did not clean up the Valvetrain, so Falcon's pics should not be a shock for you.

I just sense that you have a personal problem with auto-rx, its like you are on some sort of crusade against auto-rx, and I say that because the pics are Falcon's, it would make perfect sense if he had started this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: V8man

Mystic, there is an old thread on here called What additive would you be and why, you and another member were the only ones that responded.

Your response: My favorite additive is Auto-Rx because as far as I have been able to determine, it works. I think the only additives we should be interested in are the ones that can be demonstrated to work. I don't care how 'sexy' an additive is or how long it has been around, or about four ball tests and Falex tests that as far as I can determine really prove nothing about a motor oil or oil supplement. I care if a product works.



Now that's funny, considering how he zeros in on a post I made that MMO fixed a lifter noise. Followee by, or preceeded by, "What are we to make of that." Naturalyy ignoring that a follow up post sid that the noise came back, that ARX fixed for good.

So What are we to make of the above post? Said ARX worked and now say the opposite.
 
V8man I realize that you are a fairly new member here and I suppose you deserve an explanation.

I was a strong Auto-RX supporter. If you had asked me I would have told you that. When I first came to this website a lot of the discussions in the Oil Additives Section were about Auto-RX. A lot of people here at this website were Auto-RX users.

I owned a car at that time that had a small seal leak. One of the claims for Auto-RX was that it could stop seal leaks, as long as there was no physical damage to the seal. So I bought some Auto-RX and after the cleaning sure enough the seal leak stopped. I was impressed. Valvoline MaxLife and a special seal conditioning product had failed to do anything to stop the leak.

So why did I become disillusioned with Auto-RX? For basically three reasons:

1. Various people here said that they were going to provide proof that Auto-RX really did clean an engine effectively but they never seemed to be able to provide the proof they said that they were going to supply. Personaly I still believe that Auto-RX may be able to stop seal leaks, but I have developed doubts that it cleans like they said it did.

2. There was so much discussion about Auto-RX in the Oil Additives Section that even I, an Auto-RX supporter, felt that there should be some discussion about other oil supplements. I said that it a post and FM attacked me in a reply. I did not appreciate that very much since I was buying his product.

3. Some guy who used to post here (I can't remember his user name) said in a post that he had been promoting Auto-RX in exchange for free product. Was this guy telling the truth? I don't know. After that there was a huge mess here and by the end of that time I was EXTREMELY DISGUSTED! I stopped buying and using Auto-RX, although I still have two bottles of Auto-RX that have been sitting for a long time.

And even today whenever Auto-RX is discussed a lot of people seem to want to attack each other. Just recently a post was locked up here by a moderator.

I really do not want to become involved in any discussion about Auto-RX. Anybody else of course can discuss Auto-RX if they want. I have decided that I don't want to discuss Auto-RX. Is that explanation good enough?

Now this post that I started is about the cleaning ability of Pennzoil Platinum motor oil (and Pennzoil Ultra if they still sell it). Can we please discuss Pennzoil Platinum here?
 
Originally Posted By: electrolover
You know what else would of fixed it for good? PP!

Gotta get this thread back on track
grin.gif



grin.gif


Only the finest LL-01 oil went into the Z4. And it wasn't PP
smile.gif
 
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