Is Pennzoil Platinum enough?

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: electrolover
You do realize your talking to one of the oldest active members on bitog right? Maybe you oughta back off the sarcasm a bit.

You been here what? Six months? Maybe it would be a good idea to listen to what old school bitogers have to say rather than bash em.


You've just thrown all your credibility down the toilet as far as my opinion is concerned. Just because you've sat on a computer on this forum for a long time doesn't mean you're free from explaining your theories in a rational fashion.


I've been told that they are free from doing so. By the very people I've questioned.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Just because you've sat on a computer on this forum for a long time doesn't mean you're free from explaining your theories in a rational fashion.


If someone has been on these forums for a decade, do you have the slightest idea how many times they may have been asked to explain the same thing, over and over, by the newbies who come along and post without browsing the forums themselves first, to find that the very questions they're asking have already been answered?

That some of the fine people on these boards are willing to even ANSWER the same question dozens of times per month shows that they're willing to be used as sources of information for those of us who are interested. Let's not abuse that kindness by expecting them to explain every detail of how they obtained that information every single time they provide it. Once is enough; if you really want it explained, find the thread where it was explained the first time and realize that you should have searched for that thread to have your question answered to begin with.

If it's some new thought, new idea, new research, then yes, I can see you expecting an explanation along with the answer; if it's the same [censored] answer to the same [censored] question we see every [censored] week, sorry, nobody who knows what they're talking about is going to have the time to explain the answer every time they give it; we're too busy learning (sometimes through original research) the very information you want us to hand you. It comes with the territory; either you're willing to learn for yourself and so you don't have time to explain everything a million times or you want it spoon fed to you and have to accept that the people who can do that don't have time to explain it a million times.

This applies in all fields, not just oil.

 

[another Todd]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
That oci was PP only with a TG filter.
Its hard to get something that big threw an oil filter...even a fram. Dont freak out


Not when it's bypassing!

 

[electrolover]

Well I dont "think" it was bipassing because it still had a lot of media left that wasn't covered in crud, but who knows?
What I can tell you is the car has a little over 3000 on it since that oc and its running perfectly.

But if you dont want it happening to you, you shouldn't neglect your engine. Change the oil every now and then. Dont go 12-15k on what ever dino is on sale. Thats what caused it in the first place....that reminds me I need to replace the pcv in that thing!

 

[nitehawk55]

With what was caught in that filter it wasn't bypassing . A filter has to be in around 50% plugged before it might start to bypass and of course this would vary with grade of oil and type of filter , a paper sooner a fiber a bit more forgiving .

 

[Mystic]

I don't expect to be respected just because I have been here a long time. And over the years I have noticed that there has been a big change here and it seems like fewer and fewer people here have much respect for each other. I am kind of old fashioned and I still try to respect other people. But times they are changing. I hope people like the new reality.

RiceCake wants all kinds of documentation. Do the photographs that Falcon_LS provided supply some documentation that Pennzoil Platinum cleans? Seems like it to me-I am not blind. What about the results electrolover obtained using Pennzoil Platinum by itself and also Pennzoil plus MMO? And do engine sequence tests mean anything to RiceCake? Or maybe he thinks Pennzoil faked the engine sequence tests.

As far as I am concerned there seems to be better documentation that Pennzoil Platinum cleans than in the case of a lot of these special engine cleaning products. I don't want to discuss Auto-RX anymore but I will say this-in all the years I have been here at bitgo I have never seen any definitive proof that Auto-RX works.

And what exactly is wrong with trying to have the cleanest engine you can? It seems to me that a clean engine will probably run better than a dirty one. If we have some evidence that certain motor oils clean very well what is wrong with using those motor oils to try and have the cleanest engine possible? Or does that somehow conflict with RiceCake's rationalism and scientific excellence?

I don't have the exact figures with me right now but in the engine sequence tests I think Pennzoil was claiming something like 25% better cleaning compared to Mobil 1 oil, and something like 40% better cleaning compared to Valvoline Synpower. RiceCake, don't be alarmed. I don't have the figures right in front of me. But Pennzoil was claiming better cleaning by Pennzoil Ultra and Platinum motor oils and if they were flat out lying I think they might hear from Exxon/Mobil, Valvoline, and Castol. I think those corporations are capable of defending themselves. So I rather doubt that the engine sequence tests were faked or altered.

So I will start using Pennzoil Platinum (or Ultra) motor oil RiceCake in my engine. Why? Because I want to have the cleanest engine I can. Do I have to prove to you my engine is dirty or supply some sort of scientific documentation? No I don't. Even if the engine is fairly clean I would not mind if it was cleaner. If I am unhappy with the Pennzoil oil I can always switch to something else.

Why do people come here to the Oil Additives Section? I think that people are looking for answers to any problems they may have and seeing if there are any good oil supplements. Well, maybe Pennzoil Platinum motor oil might be an answer for some people. I am trying to help and not just putting down whatever somebody else talks about. RiceCake, if you don't like what I am doing, maybe you can come up with something instead of just criticizing what somebody else has done?

As for Trajan, I ignore anything he says. People may have noticed here by this time that he follows me around this website and criticizes anything I say. Since it seems like he has nothing useful to offer I have him on ignore and do not even read his posts.

RiceCake, I can do that with you also if you demonstrate that you never have anything to offer except for criticism for what somebody else says. If you don't like my suggestions then you should come up with something yourself. I respect positive criticism but if somebody attacks what I say and offers nothing that is better I do not respect that.

 

[RiceCake]

Quote:
RiceCake, if you don't like what I am doing, maybe you can come up with something instead of just criticizing what somebody else has done?


All you've said is you think the engine is dirty and you plan to assume you're cleaning it if your oil "gets dark". Yes, this is criticism: your testing method is flawed and incomplete and has neither a definite before or after. I don't care how long you've sat on this forum or how much respect you think you deserve but you're offering the people here nothing beyond goading about how awesome you think Pennzoil Platinum is. The day I think my engine is dirty, I will go through the process of proving it is dirty and setting up a test of someone else's discovery, like the cleaning effectiveness of PU.

You even asked "is Pennzoil Platinum enough?"

Here's the answer you don't want: who knows. Figure out if your engine is dirty. Run it. Take it apart and show us its cleaned something. If you do that you're helping all the nice folks who visit this forum by showing them a solution if they have a problem.

Quote:
As for Trajan, I ignore anything he says. People may have noticed here by this time that he follows me around this website and criticizes anything I say. Since it seems like he has nothing useful to offer I have him on ignore and do not even read his posts.


By the way, the only way you could read what Trajan said...was if you didn't have him on ignore. So you don't have him on ignore. You obviously want to make sure to try to remind him that you do, despite the fact that you read his post. 'Tis very funny.

Please add me to ignore too so you can later tell people you're not reading my posts and you can't see me if I respond to you. Its tragically funny.

 

[TuBon_gRips]

You make some good points about what's happening to these forums. I may have only joined recently, but I've been lurking for a decade; some here could use a little lurking time, I feel. There was a poster in another thread who accused me of being unable or unwilling to accept differing opinions, going so far as to claim that I plainly stated as much. When asked to quote where I had done so, this posted did not respond.

I almost wish I had joined back when I first started reading these forums, so I could have enjoyed some of the detailed and meaningful discussions that used to occur here. I say "almost" because I am fairly certain that I would have contributed as much to the downfall of these forums as everyone else who decides to post here without reading first had I done the same.

 

[electrolover]

That whole post is pretty rude. Especially for a NOOB talking to one of the oldests members of bitog.
He's not tearing his engine apart to post pics for you. Are you some kind of authority? Why does he need to prove anything to you?

Keep it up and you will find yourself on "vacation".

I have notified the mods of your demeanor. They will be watching you.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Mystic
If it turns really dark I will assume it is cleaning


Only the best, non-biased, rigorously tested scientific methods here on BITOG.

It's been stated many times here that oil turning dark doesn't mean anything.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake

By the way, the only way you could read what Trajan said...was if you didn't have him on ignore. So you don't have him on ignore. You obviously want to make sure to try to remind him that you do, despite the fact that you read his post. 'Tis very funny.

Please add me to ignore too so you can later tell people you're not reading my posts and you can't see me if I respond to you. Its tragically funny.


He can ignore me all he wants. He can dish it out, but can't take it. Doesn't like his claims being questioned. (he's not the only one.) Doesn't like being caught short. He'll make noise about how I said mmo fixed a problem. Yet has nothing to say that the problem came back, and arx fixed it for good.

Paranoid too.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
That whole post is pretty rude. Especially for a NOOB talking to one of the oldests members of bitog.
He's not tearing his engine apart to post pics for you. Are you some kind of authority? Why does he need to prove anything to you?

Keep it up and you will find yourself on "vacation".


He calls my post pretty rude and then proceeds to basically say that I'm too young and must be an idiot because I think someone should be able to prove their theories beyond "I'm older and I know better."

Cool. I can easily report this thread and walk away now if you wanna threaten me by saying you can get me banned from this forum because you have some petty indifference. Sounds like someone is desperate to be a bigshot in life, too bad its only on a website forum they've frequented for longer then me.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Mystic
If it turns really dark I will assume it is cleaning


Only the best, non-biased, rigorously tested scientific methods here on BITOG.

It's been ststed many times here that oil turning dark doesn't mean anything.



Agreed. Color by itself means nothing. But if you know your engine and know what to expect then you notice differences.

When I switched my explorer to syn, I ran three 3k ocis. The first one got dark very quickly and the second one didnt get dark until 1500 miles or so. Now the oil is just slightly discolored at 3k. Is that proof? Idk. But I tell ya what, it makes sense that the syn was cleaning something because it doesn't get dark very soon anymore.

 

[electrolover]

Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: electrolover
That whole post is pretty rude. Especially for a NOOB talking to one of the oldests members of bitog.
He's not tearing his engine apart to post pics for you. Are you some kind of authority? Why does he need to prove anything to you?

Keep it up and you will find yourself on "vacation".


He calls my post pretty rude and then proceeds to basically say that I'm too young and must be an idiot because I think someone should be able to prove their theories beyond "I'm older and I know better."

Cool. I can easily report this thread and walk away now if you wanna threaten me by saying you can get me banned from this forum because you have some petty indifference. Sounds like someone is desperate to be a bigshot in life, too bad its only on a website forum they've frequented for longer then me.


Your mistaken. Im a member just like you. I can't get anyone to do anything. But the rules are pretty clear about personal attacks and such behavior. And in the past I have seen people get suspended for it....myself included

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Mystic
If it turns really dark I will assume it is cleaning


Only the best, non-biased, rigorously tested scientific methods here on BITOG.

It's been ststed many times here that oil turning dark doesn't mean anything.


It's not that it doesn't mean anything; it means one of a number of things. Oil not changing color at all means it's not doing anything, except possibly protecting the engine.

Oil that is darkening is reacting with something and/or cleaning something. If it's remaining transparent as it darkens, it's either oxidizing, being cooked (burning), dissolving varnish deposits (cleaning), or some combination of these. If it's becoming opaque as it darkens, it's dissolving carbon or sludge deposits (cleaning), as well as possibly one or more of the "remaining transparent" actions. It seems at least a 50/50 chance that oil which is darkening is also cleaning, so it's a reasonable assumption for one to make.

That said, you are correct in your implication that it doesn't mean, with any degree of certainty, that the oil is cleaning.

However, when someone provides details along the lines of "oil ABC didn't darken over 2000 miles of use, nor after adding XYZ additive and driving an additional 1000 miles; engine still dirty" followed by "oil DEF didn't darken over 2000 miles of use, then rapidly darkened after adding XYZ additive; engine much cleaner" it leaves little doubt that cleaning occurred and that this cleaning was the cause of the oil darkening. I've seen you adamantly deny such evidence as not being scientific.

What more do you want, and are you prepared to finance it? I'll provide my expertise if you'll provide the funding.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Originally Posted By: Mystic
If it turns really dark I will assume it is cleaning


Only the best, non-biased, rigorously tested scientific methods here on BITOG.

It's been ststed many times here that oil turning dark doesn't mean anything.



Agreed. Color by itself means nothing. But if you know your engine and know what to expect then you notice differences.

When I switched my explorer to syn, I ran three 3k ocis. The first one got dark very quickly and the second one didnt get dark until 1500 miles or so. Now the oil is just slightly discolored at 3k. Is that proof? Idk. But I tell ya what, it makes sense that the syn was cleaning something because it doesn't get dark very soon anymore.


I ran 7500 OCI in the Z4 using either M1 0w-40 or German Castrol. Never got dark.

I've run the factory oil, (Motorcraft 5w-20), and Castrol Edge 5w-20 in the Mustang for 6-8K. and they never get dark either.

Sure, synth has better cleaning properties. I might use Redline for a year or so, as I understand it's high in esters.

 

[RiceCake]

Originally Posted By: electrolover
But the rules are pretty clear about personal attacks and such behavior. And in the past I have seen people get suspended for it....myself included


Quote:
Noun

personal attack (plural personal attacks)

Making of an abusive remark instead of providing evidence when examining another person's claims or comments.


I criticised Mystic's methodology because he seems to be touting Pennzoil Ultra's cleaning effectiveness without even offering to do any of the gruntwork necessary to prove it for us or even himself. Oil getting dirty isn't a quality indication of it cleaning anything.

Ironically, its you who has made all the personal attacks here: the second I questioned the logic of "assuming its cleaning because its getting dirty faster" you assured me I was a noob and inadequate and had no idea what I was saying and that I should shove off and be banned.

So if moderation gets upset with me I'd be happy to discuss it at this rate.

 

[electrolover]

Ok u do that. Lol

 

[TuBon_gRips]

Originally Posted By: Trajan

I ran 7500 OCI in the Z4 using either M1 0w-40 or German Castrol. Never got dark.

I've run the factory oil, (Motorcraft 5w-20), and Castrol Edge 5w-20 in the Mustang for 6-8K. and they never get dark either.

Sure, synth has better cleaning properties. I might use Redline for a year or so, as I understand it's high in esters.


Your oil never got dark, that doesn't prove that darkening means nothing, though. Either the oil wasn't cleaning because it didn't have a decent add pack, or it wasn't cleaning because there was nothing to clean. You weren't cooking it and it wasn't oxidizing. That doesn't mean that oil doesn't darken as it cleans.

 

[Mystic]

RiceCake do you know what an engine sequence test is? Do you know how much an engine sequence test costs? I submit to you we have more evidence that Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra motor oils clean than for any of these special engine cleaning products. We have engine sequence tests from a major oil corporation plus we have photographic evidence supplied by Falcon_LS. Show me one of these special engine cleaning products that has engine sequence testing evidence supplied by a major oil corporation. Falcon_LS did four cleaning routines using a special engine cleaning product over 22,000 miles. He did not observe any major improvement. But anybody can look at his photographs and see what Pennzoil Platinum did in one 3,800 mile oil change. How is that for evidence?

You seem to think that science is just criticizing what somebody else has said or come up with. We would not have much progress if that is all science is. I will take the Pennzoil engine sequence tests any day over some claim made by somebody for some engine cleaning product with not the slightest amount of documentation to prove it.

I don't have to prove anything to you. We already have evidence from the Pennzoil engine sequence tests, from Falcon_LS's testing and photographic evidence, and from the testing that electrolover has done. Not to mention some people here have obtained cleaning results using Mobil 1.

Why should I remove parts from my engine, replace gaskets, and do compression testing? For you? With the evidence we already have if I just use Pennzoil Platinum motor oil I might get some cleaning. It can't hurt my engine. It is an approved motor oil! Since there is solid evidence it does clean well and since it is an approved engine oil and can't hurt my engine, there is no reason I should not use it. How is that for logical?

How about if you prove that Pennzoil Platinum does not clean as well as say, Mobil 1, or Valvoline Synpower, or Castrol Edge?

Let us look at the logic involved here shall we? There seems to be no logical reason for a person not to use a motor oil like Pennzoil Platinum if they want to clean their engine. We already have evidence, RiceCake, that Pennzoil Platinum cleans. We have engine sequence tests and testing done by Falcon_LS. Now you come along and attack me because I said that if the oil turned dark quickly I would assume the engine might be dirty. A good motor oil will turn dark but if an oil turns dark very quickly that can be evidence of a dirty engine. Have you ever gone to a used car lot RiceCake and checked the dipstick of a used car and the oil looked like tar? I have. I walked away from that used car.

Since we have evidence from engine sequence testing done by a major oil corporation that Pennzoil Platinum actually cleans well, perhaps better than other motor oils, where is it illogical to not use it if a person is trying to get their engine as clean as possible? We can make it simple. If oil A in engine sequence testing cleans better than Oil B, Oil C, and Oil D, than presumably somebody who wants a very clean engine will use Oil A. Is that logical?

If Pennzoil had flat out faked those engine sequence tests I think they might be hearing from Exxon/Mobil, Valvoline, and Castrol. If we looked closer maybe we would find they tested against regular Mobil 1 and maybe Mobil 1 HM cleans as well as Pennzoil Platinum. I don't know. All I know is there seems to be plenty of evidence that Pennzoil Platinum cleans, and I want my engine to be as clean as it can be. Is that logical?

So why don't you spend less time attacking people here and more time offering solutions and doing positive things? Come up with some ideas and suggestions of your own. I would like to see you make some positive suggestions.