is Mobil 1 a group 4, true synthetic?

[BuickGN]

I just read the tail end of this so it may not relate.

Where I agree with 7777 is for a dollar more you might as well run a true grpV oil instead of guessing what's in it. I think it's a safe assumption that if any of the Mobil One products were primarily ester based they would be advertising the heck out of it instead of resorting to the proprietary line.

Mobil One is a fine oil but paying a dollar more for an ester base with most of them being VII-less with an awesome add pack seems like a no-brainer.

 

[ZZman]

Originally Posted By: elwaylite


Terry just put up some good info on EDGE.


Where is this?

 

[JAG]

Wow, what a thread this is. The concentration of useful info. is small. The question itself is vague. What does it mean? Does M1 contain PAO or is it nothing but PAO, additive carrier, and additives? The latter oil is not one that I'd want because of PAO's negatives not being counteracted. All M1 oils with the word Supersyn on the bottle contain at least some amount of PAO (high viscosity PAO in low concentration). Typical viscosity PAOs may or may not exist, depending on the specific M1 oil. Group III is certainly used in some M1 oils.

Go to the source: XOM. Click on the link below to XOM MSDSs. Select Japan and English and type in the viscosity grade you are interested in. If the Japanese MSDS does not exist, try Korea. MSDSs for both countries often yield useful base oil and correction fluid information.

http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/psims/psims.aspx

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Originally Posted By: elwaylite


Terry just put up some good info on EDGE.


Where is this?
On his private Blog... Not on BITOG.

 

[FusilliJerry82]

Redline's lack of an API cert is more likely due to its addpack no? It has a much higher level of zinc for instance than SM specifies as maximum. They could probably get an SJ cert but that may seem a bit backwards to their customers so they don't try.

 

[BerndV]

Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh

Um, actually I've seen speculation that its a Group IV (mostly) & V blend unless you're using the racing stuff...

Read the rest of this thread and stop "speculating". Dave from Redline has stated unequivocally that their street oils are mostly POE based with some PAO and no Group III. A 100% ester based oil would be no more desireable for street use than a 100% PAO based oil. An API certification by Redline would involve reducing the quantity of certain additives that are very useful for reducing engine wear but may also shorten the life of some emission components. In other words, the oil's ability to protect the engine would be compromised. It is for this reason that I actually prefer that Redline remain non-API certified. They produce a no compromise oil with all emphasis placed on maximum engine protection. Catalytic converter preservation and tailpipe emissions are taken out of the equation.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Tom NJ has speculated before that if a 100% Group V Ester motor oil did exist it would cost something like $30 dollars a quart.


?????

I said that an oil based entirely on certain advanced polyol esters that amortizes a full testing program over a relatively small specialty volume may run $15-20/qt. I also said the selling price is a marketing decision and not based entirely on the raw material costs.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1220354

Most pure POE base oils wholesale for around $3-6/quart depending on type and volume. The additive package may lower the cost, but then you need to add in costs for blending, packaging, distribution, advertising, customer service, and profit. Without certification testing I believe a 100% POE based motor oil can retail under $10/qt., but again price is a marketing decision based on perceived value in your target markets.

Tom NJ

 

[Gary Allan]

What does the certification process add to the equation. By your leaving it out, it must be either substantial and/or fixed; making it difficult to be factored on a per quart basis.

 

[Tom NJ]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
What does the certification process add to the equation.


If a company spends $250k to run all of the engine and bench tests required for certification, they will likely amortize those costs over a projected volume of sales, and therefore seek a return on this investment in the selling price. A company who skips this testing cost can sell their product for less.

How much the testing costs contribute per quart depends on how the company choses to allocate the costs, and how much product they expect to sell over what time period. It can be a little or a lot,

Tom NJ

 

[Gary Allan]

I can surely see, especially with the frequency of the evolutions, why a smaller blender ..even a not so small "small" blender like Amsoil, would forgo the certification process. You just don't have the market share to distribute the costs in any reasonable manner.

The stuff Bruce blends for me is $25/gallon in his material costs (PAO with some undisclosed polymer surely of high cost). To bring it to market would probably double or triple the price. That would be without any sanctioned testing.

 

[buster]

The Pro's of the certification process are that you prove quality and create a system that maintains "some" level of consistency. Should Amsoil be exempt from that? In order for them to survive they have to. I understand their reasoning. Amsoil is somewhat of an exception to the rule at this point because they have a 30+ year reputation and make a good product.

I've heard some interesting things about synthetic tear -aparts. Some of these brands that looked like synthetics from 10 years ago. To compete they have to cut corners. One of those ways is using older additive and base oil technology and the other is avoiding the certification process.

 

[dbvettez061]

Originally Posted By: elwaylite
The 8x wear protection ad by Castrol and the 4x protection by Valvoline is doing plenty to educate the non BITOG customer.


CAN YOU explain to me what the heck this 8x 4x is supposed to mean??????????????

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, you've got a yin:yang (or is that ying:yan) relationship between quality requirements and ante to wear the API union label ..so to speak. One can easily turn into the other. API is surely just like the FDA/AMA/ABA in that they serve their own best interests. They appear to provide value in the process.


Wallace: A spear as long as a man is tall
Hamish: Some men are longer than others.

Who's doing the measuring of what's required? You can ante yourself out of existence.

 

[CompSyn]

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: CompSyn
Tom NJ has speculated before that if a 100% Group V Ester motor oil did exist it would cost something like $30 dollars a quart.


?????

I said that an oil based entirely on certain advanced polyol esters that amortizes a full testing program over a relatively small specialty volume may run $15-20/qt. I also said the selling price is a marketing decision and not based entirely on the raw material costs.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1220354

Most pure POE base oils wholesale for around $3-6/quart depending on type and volume. The additive package may lower the cost, but then you need to add in costs for blending, packaging, distribution, advertising, customer service, and profit. Without certification testing I believe a 100% POE based motor oil can retail under $10/qt., but again price is a marketing decision based on perceived value in your target markets.

Tom NJ


Sorry Tom, didn't mean to mis-quote you. I had just recalled this part:

Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Cost depends on volume, which is part of the problem, but I would expect the base ester to cost perhaps 3-4 times that of a Grp III. The additive system would likely also benefit from a revamping to match the ester.


And when I go to the local Big Box store I see Grp IIIs selling for between $5-to-7-plus a quart.

On a side note, I did look up Motul 300V and see you can buy it for $31 per half gallon ($15.5 per quart). However, I don’t know much about that brand and how it stacks up to the PAO/Ester blends? I know it is a race oil, but some say it can be safely ran on the street.

 

[Tom NJ]

No problem CompSyn. When I said the POE costs 3-4 times Group III, I was refering to the pure base oils at wholesale, not the retail price of the finished oils in quarts.

No idea what Motul is using these days. That price may have a chunk of freight and duty costs coming from France.

In any case, cost is set in the plant, price is set in the marketplace.

Tom NJ

 

[Grease_Guy]

I believe that the M1 product is PAO with some amount of Ester for solubility of the add pack usually around 10%.

 

[Dupree]

yes it is tadaaa !!!!!!!!!!
If there is anything that is consistent for this site it is there are Mobil 1 haters and Mobil 1 lovers......
Its kind of like the old bud light taste great vs less feeling commercials, we will go on to the end of time arguing weather Mobil 1 is super duper spiffy or [censored] mania.
I like it and so do many others............