Is Anyone Else Disappointed with modern engine oils?

[carl1963]

I most certainly can tell you that the average run of the mill engine will last as long on the Walmart shelf oil as it will on Valvoline Restore and Protect if you change it every 5 to 10k miles ( I like 5k myself).

Anecdotal stories in the Internet are not evidence, and just because there are some models with engine defects doesn't mean the oil is the problem. Most cars go to the junkyard with decent running engines.

That may have been true 20 years ago. Visit your local junkyard and they'll have rows of vehicles that are there because the engine failed. My local junkyard has the first few rows filled with GM trucks and SUVs. Almost all of the 07+ suvs and trucks, 3.6 Traverses, 2.4 Equinoxes, 1.4T Traxes are there because the engine failed. Next rows are Ford trucks and SUVs. Almost all are there due to 5.4 and Ecoboost failure. Rows after that are Dodge and Jeeps with failed Hemis and 3.6s. I would wager that most non wrecked cars these days go to the junkyard with engine or transmission failure.
There are numerous models where if you are looking for an engine at a junkyard you'll only get one from a wrecked car. Whereas a lot of cars (GM 3.8, pre AFM 5.3 etc) you can pull an engine from nearly any condition vehicle wrecked or not and you'll be just fine.

Not to turn this into a post about sourcing a used engine from a junkyard but you can get a pretty clear idea of what lasts and what doesn't by visting your local junkyard. The Toyota rows are filled with totalled cars and 200k+ mile vehicles that rusted away. The GM, Ford, FCA, Euro rows are filled with <150k mile clean bodies with failed engines/transmissions.

 

[wemay]

Not disappointed.

 

[CleanSump]

Marketing a machine that requires a fluid that doesn't exist is failure on multiple layers of a company, not on the fluid that is available.
Engineering failed by not considering available fluids. Management failed by not asking Engineering if the machine will be functional and reliable on available consumables. Look at Mercedes and Blue DEF. The company developed Blue Def because they had a mechanical solution to Emissions Regs that they could only market by co-developing and marketing Blue Def. They didn't market the OM642 Diesel with NOX catalyst and then tell people, sorry, no cat pee, you're SOL.

 

[GW.]

I’m more disappointed in engine designs than the race to the bottom with oils. Although the majority of engines can still run their life on “whatever” oil, I believe the number of engines with deposit problems are increasing. Stuck rings, varnish, and sludge problems in many cases can now be remedied by oil choice. When buying an expensive new vehicle with a new engine design it would be wise to run a high quality oil. It can take years before a track record is established and I personally don’t feel like being a guinea pig. $29 at Walmart for an oil that is proven to keep things clean is a game changer. Or for extended oci’s and severe service a boutique would be a wise choice.

 

[buster]

I’m more disappointed in engine designs than the race to the bottom with oils. Although the majority of engines can still run their life on “whatever” oil, I believe the number of engines with deposit problems are increasing. Stuck rings, varnish, and sludge problems in many cases can now be remedied by oil choice. When buying an expensive new vehicle with a new engine design it would be wise to run a high quality oil. It can take years before a track record is established and I personally don’t feel like being a guinea pig. $29 at Walmart for an oil that is proven to keep things clean is a game changer. Or for extended oci’s and severe service a boutique would be a wise choice.

Was going to say the same. I'm more disappointed the overly complex engine designs that are trying to squeeze every last mpg out of it while using low viscosity oils.

 

[kschachn]

Not disappointed.

Agreed, me neither. Today’s oils are arguably excellent and meet the most stringent requirements ever.

The problem, if there is one, isn’t the oil.

 

[lovcom]

I believe cars are far, far better today than 20+ years ago, and they last far longer, and more dependable. I believe today's oils are better than ever in the history of oil.

I've had the same neighbor for 35 years. He says his cars always burn oil. He only buys new cars. Like myself, he only buys Hondas or Toyotas. I've never owned a Toyota or Honda that burned oil, and this is true going back to the early 1990s. Although, I did have 2 domestic cars in that time, and neither burned oil.

When he leaves for work, he drives his cold cars like he is stole them. He drives aggressively once he backs the cars out of the garage. Like myself, he changes his own oil, and we both use either Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Mobil 1. We both change the oil between 5,000 and 7,000 miles. He runs only 0w-30, and I run the lowest viscosity the car manual specifies. PS I run 0w-16 in my Rav4 hybrid, and I am a big believer in light oils; he is not. Neighbor's commute is 17 miles to work, 80% freeway.

So what is going on between my neighbor and me? Why do all his cars burn oil, and mine never do?

I am convinced that it is him, not the cars. Its the way he drives, and his unwillingness to let the car warm up before he gets aggressive. I have often seen blue smoke coming out of his tail pipe as he drives off (I work from home).

 

[ripcord]

I believe cars are far, far better today than 20+ years ago, and they last far longer, and more dependable. I believe today's oils are better than ever in the history of oil.

I've had the same neighbor for 35 years. He says his cars always burn oil. He only buys new cars. Like myself, he only buys Hondas or Toyotas. I've never owned a Toyota or Honda that burned oil, and this is true going back to the early 1990s. Although, I did have 2 domestic cars in that time, and neither burned oil.

When he leaves for work, he drives his cold cars like he is stole them. He drives aggressively once he backs the cars out of the garage. Like myself, he changes his own oil, and we both use either Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Mobil 1. We both change the oil between 5,000 and 7,000 miles. He runs only 0w-30, and I run the lowest viscosity the car manual specifies. PS I run 0w-16 in my Rav4 hybrid, and I am a big believer in light oils; he is not. Neighbor's commute is 17 miles to work, 80% freeway.

So what is going on between my neighbor and me? Why do all his cars burn oil, and mine never do?

I am convinced that it is him, not the cars. Its the way he drives, and his unwillingness to let the car warm up before he gets aggressive. I have often seen blue smoke coming out of his tail pipe as he drives off (I work from home).

Excellent point! If you ever talk to him about it, tell him that 90% of wear happens during warm up not during startup.

 

[CarlB]

Based on the original post I think it should be retitled, "Is Anyone Else Disappointed with modern engines?"

 

[ripcord]

Based on the original post I think it should be retitled, "Is Anyone Else Disappointed with modern engines?"

Yep. It's not the oil.

 

[buster]

There is more selection of good oils now then ever before. When I joined in 2002 it was basically M1, Amsoil, RL and maybe a very select few Euro oils that were really good.

I believe cars are far, far better today than 20+ years ago, and they last far longer, and more dependable. I believe today's oils are better than ever in the history of oil.

I've had the same neighbor for 35 years. He says his cars always burn oil. He only buys new cars. Like myself, he only buys Hondas or Toyotas. I've never owned a Toyota or Honda that burned oil, and this is true going back to the early 1990s. Although, I did have 2 domestic cars in that time, and neither burned oil.

When he leaves for work, he drives his cold cars like he is stole them. He drives aggressively once he backs the cars out of the garage. Like myself, he changes his own oil, and we both use either Pennzoil Ultra Platinum or Mobil 1. We both change the oil between 5,000 and 7,000 miles. He runs only 0w-30, and I run the lowest viscosity the car manual specifies. PS I run 0w-16 in my Rav4 hybrid, and I am a big believer in light oils; he is not. Neighbor's commute is 17 miles to work, 80% freeway.

So what is going on between my neighbor and me? Why do all his cars burn oil, and mine never do?

I am convinced that it is him, not the cars. Its the way he drives, and his unwillingness to let the car warm up before he gets aggressive. I have often seen blue smoke coming out of his tail pipe as he drives off (I work from home).

I agree that cars and oils are better now. In 2002 you really only had M1, Amsoil, RL and maybe a select few Euro oils that were really good.

Some Toyota and Honda engines, especially from years past, consumed oil. I had a 2001 Corolla that consumed 1/2qt every 3k miles but ran like new at 180k.

 

[tig1]

Has Mobil claimed that theirs cleans rings?

I've used Mobil 1 oils for decades and have never had coked rings or even varnish. 10K OCIs.

 

[4wd]

Here’s one for a lubricant site: squeaky wheel gets the grease:
A minority of vehicles and products = lots of drama threads …

 

[loneryder]

I've used Mobil 1 oils for decades and have never had coked rings or even varnish. 10K OCIs.

Yes and you have gotten more use out of Fords than most people. I was just asking about their"new" Mobil 1. I've used it most of my life.

 

[Sylvert]

My dad always told me many times about his 1968 chevelle with the inline 6, how the oil he used at that time was terrible, it was Havoline I believe, no idea about the viscosity. The dealer would take the valve cover off and crap off a thick foam inside the cover. He said he then changed for Castrol oil I believe, running a 10w10 in winter and 20w20 in summer, yup pretty thin, but never had problems after.

So, modern oil are excellent, even cheaper home brand oil like Kirkland and Supertech will be very good. Honestly, I don't think there is bad oil, just better ones for the application...

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Seems as though a lot of folks are missing the point of the thread. I used to be in the same camp of "change your oil every 5k with any full synthetic and you'll be good to go" but that's just not the case anymore. We know not all oils are cut out the same, and pretending that picking any oil and changing it frequently is going to cut it, or even be "overkill" as I discussed in my first post is not working for many. I've never heard of so many engine-out jobs on run of the mill daily drivers until the last few years. All these timing chain/cam phaser jobs and engine replacements didn't occur back in the day. I think most oils on the shelf besides Valvoline Restore and Protect and maybe Mobil 1 ESP /Advanced Clean are not cut out for use in modern engines. What's the point of changing your oil every 5k if you're still going to end up at the mechanic footing a hefty bill like Joe Shmoe that goes to Jiffy Lube 2 months after his car tells him to change the oil?

Is that not the whole point of BITOG, to find the best oil for our vehicles to keep them running their best and for as long as possible and avoid costly repairs? If that's not the point then I'm not sure why we're on here spending our time discussing and researching motor oil.

You can't tell me an engine will last as long and run as clean on Supertech or normal Mobil 1 as it will with Valvoline Restore and Protect.

Sounds like it’s time to bring up the oil that’s the answer for literally almost anything; has a fantastic track record; carries a multitude of high-performance manufacturer approvals; and is available on any Walmart shelf for $30-35… wait for it… you want Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40. It’s truly a universal oil for 99% of cars, even if it is a different grade than recommended. Your engine will never miss a beat, and you’ll get rid of the car long before you have an oil-related failure. The End.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I’m more disappointed in engine designs than the race to the bottom with oils. Although the majority of engines can still run their life on “whatever” oil, I believe the number of engines with deposit problems are increasing. Stuck rings, varnish, and sludge problems in many cases can now be remedied by oil choice. When buying an expensive new vehicle with a new engine design it would be wise to run a high quality oil. It can take years before a track record is established and I personally don’t feel like being a guinea pig. $29 at Walmart for an oil that is proven to keep things clean is a game changer. Or for extended oci’s and severe service a boutique would be a wise choice.

All your valid concerns’ root causes can be traced directly back to CAFE requirements… the “net zero” before it was cool…

 

[kschachn]

Sounds like it’s time to bring up the oil that’s the answer for literally almost anything; has a fantastic track record; carries a multitude of high-performance manufacturer approvals; and is available on any Walmart shelf for $30-35… wait for it… you want Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40. It’s truly a universal oil for 99% of cars, even if it is a different grade than recommended. Your engine will never miss a beat, and you’ll get rid of the car long before you have an oil-related failure. The End.

I'd say that ESP 0W-30 is more universal due to the reduced ash, but that's not always a concern.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I'd say that ESP 0W-30 is more universal due to the reduced ash, but that's not always a concern.

I agree, ESP 0w30 is likely the best future-proof oil for new cars, but the FS 0w40 is pretty much the universal equivalent for <2020 vehicles.

I’m mainly just going by the recently posted data that showed the average car was nearing 15 years old. Obviously, some of the newer cars/trucks with GPF/DPF will need the lower ash. So we have co-crowned winners, but both Mobil 1 oils… a testament to their extensive R&D.

 

[Carlostrece]

Most 90s and early 2000s cars were great. Many still are, even with 200-300K+ if maintained. I'm not so keen on newer model years.

It was Obama's cash for clunkers fiasco that removed a lot of great 90s cars and trucks from the road. Many more of those cars would still be running today if not for Obama.

The 4 cars I'm maintaining are older cars. 3 of them didn't have much maintenance upkeep until recently. We have very few issues with them. By contrast, I constantly read about people's problems with newer cars, even though they try their best with maintenance.

Newer cars need highend synthetic oil to function well, and even then some don't function well. Older cars can last a long time on conventional oil with minimal maintenance, or thrive on synthetic oil.