Valvoline "Modern Engine" oil

[Ignatius]

Malarkey? What malarkey?
I asked directly why it was discontinued, I made no claim that the company had made false claims.

Why would you question whether or not it had been discontinued based on false claims? It is an insinuation based on a conclusion you have jumped to. The question is why you would jump to that conclusion in the first place?

It is kind of like asking a divorced man, "Did your ex-wife leave you because she wanted to be with a REAL man?"

 

[EMPIRE]

Having read the SDSs at some point I still can't remember what the difference is between VME and Advanced? Consumers need a simple way of distinguishing between tiers of motor oil within a company. Valvoline has failed with its current product names. Mobil, Pennzoil, Quaker State, etc all make it easy to know which tier you are looking at with products.

I just posted about this same thing in my "0w16" thread. Same issue with Mobil 1, two different "makes" of oil (label marketing), same exact specs. I see where one make will be upsold for a premium at some retailers, like the "advanced fuel economy" label is sold 60% more than the other same specs model.

 

[wdn]

I would not call it false claims as much as weak and unquantified claims. Valvoline claimed theirs was the only oil specially designed to fight carbon buildup on intake valves. The other claim was it fights buildup better than other motor oils. If true, by how much? 10%? 1%? Valvoline does not say. An intake valve cleaner like CRC GDI intake cleaner has been shown to be effective.

 

[EMPIRE]

Why would you question whether or not it had been discontinued based on false claims? It is an insinuation based on a conclusion you have jumped to. The question is why you would jump to that conclusion in the first place?

It is kind of like asking a divorced man, "Did your ex-wife leave you because she wanted to be with a REAL man?"

Because often times the claims have no quantitative proof in real-world application, thus the pricing not justified.
If the comparison shows same results, then perhaps all the "cleans better in turbo and gdi engines" were just BS, right?

And for clarity, if you read what I wrote I was asking for the reason why it was discontinued. A great product that does not sell is just that. A product that has non substantiated claims that does not sell is just that, but the two reasons are very different.

I made no claims the product did not perform, I was asking WHY it was discontinued. Would it have been better if I listed out more options, like "it was discontinued because the bottle color was bad, or false claims, or because the moon rose in the western sky too far north for 20days in a row, or because Michael Jordan no longer sells Hanes undies, or because McD's changed the type of fry oil they use? "

Would that list of examples have been satisfactory for you?

 

[doublebase]

I bought around 15 quarts of it when it was on clearance at autozone, 2 bucks a quart. Have it in my Toyota Avalon now - problem is - I could put olive oil in that car and it wouldn’t burn, smoke or exhibit any problems,,, so it’s hard for me to tell in the oil is “good”, or not. I originally bought the oil for a direct injection engine that I’ve since traded in.

But I think part of the Modern Engine oil’s problem was price. The stuff was initially expensive - I’ve seen it online for $12-$14 a quart and that’s just ridiculous. But I’ve always considered Valvoline a little different from the other major players and quite frankly I always tended to avoid them because of their low moly content (which they’ve since changed I guess).

 

[PimTac]

They have changed. It’s been about three years now since Valvoline went to a moly/titanium/boron add pack.

As mentioned in other threads on this oil, VME was initially expensive and also vague in its marketing. I was lucky to pick up a jug at Wally’s on rollback and at the same time take advantage of a $10 rebate from Valvoline which brought the end price to around $20.

What bothered members here is that there was no specific info on what was in this oil that helped keep deposits down. That led to lots of speculation which led to long threads.

 

[EMPIRE]

I bought around 15 quarts of it when it was on clearance at autozone, 2 bucks a quart. Have it in my Toyota Avalon now - problem is - I could put olive oil in that car and it wouldn’t burn, smoke or exhibit any problems,,, so it’s hard for me to tell in the oil is “good”, or not. I originally bought the oil for a direct injection engine that I’ve since traded in.

But I think part of the Modern Engine oil’s problem was price. The stuff was initially expensive - I’ve seen it online for $12-$14 a quart and that’s just ridiculous. But I’ve always considered Valvoline a little different from the other major players and quite frankly I always tended to avoid them because of their low moly content (which they’ve since changed I guess).

Exactly, they market it with a premium price, so what exactly are you getting for that premium price? Or maybe perhaps the price is no different at all at the factory level, which then is an indicator that the oil is really no different than the others are the same price point.

If the label says "cleans better in turbo and gdi engines" and it really doesn't clean better vs any other model of oil, then I call that label false claims. Yeah, I know, for some the claims will be shown in some special lab, which has no real-world counterpart in application.

 

[PimTac]

Exactly, they market it with a premium price, so what exactly are you getting for that premium price? Or maybe perhaps the price is no different at all at the factory level, which then is an indicator that the oil is really no different than the others are the same price point.

If the label says "cleans better in turbo and gdi engines" and it really doesn't clean better vs any other model of oil, then I call that label false claims. Yeah, I know, for some the claims will be shown in some special lab, which has no real-world counterpart in application.

That is pure speculation on your part. Most companies do not disclose proprietary information.

 

[EMPIRE]

They have changed. It’s been about three years now since Valvoline went to a moly/titanium/boron add pack.

As mentioned in other threads on this oil, VME was initially expensive and also vague in its marketing. I was lucky to pick up a jug at Wally’s on rollback and at the same time take advantage of a $10 rebate from Valvoline which brought the end price to around $20.

What bothered members here is that there was no specific info on what was in this oil that helped keep deposits down. That led to lots of speculation which led to long threads.

So what then was the reason why this magical VME oil was discontinued? It's not very difficult to market a item to sell. So maybe it just didn't do what it said it could do? Or something other?

Speculation of what's in the oil?? Why speculation? Buy oil, send sample to a UOA lab, get back report of what's in it. Seems rather simple to me.

 

[PimTac]

Call Valvoline and ask them.

 

[EMPIRE]

That is pure speculation on your part. Most companies do not disclose proprietary information.

What was I speculating?
I not asking to know their proprietary info, I just want to see the results of using the product. Did it actually do what it said it could do, any better than the std synth oil?

 

[53' Stude]

What was I speculating?
I not asking to know their proprietary info, I just want to see the results of using the product. Did it actually do what it said it could do, any better than the std synth oil?

We don’t know. I’m glad they clearances it out as it obviously was not a fast mover at a Wal Mart or Autozone. If you want to use it, go find some and report back to us. I will use some of the VME 5w20 soon

 

[kschachn]

So what then was the reason why this magical VME oil was discontinued? It's not very difficult to market a item to sell. So maybe it just didn't do what it said it could do? Or something other?

Speculation of what's in the oil?? Why speculation? Buy oil, send sample to a UOA lab, get back report of what's in it. Seems rather simple to me.

No $35 UOA or VOA is going to tell you "what's in" an oil. The approvals, specifications and licenses tell that.

If you believe differently, tell us what parameters of that UOA or VOA are what predict or indicate the oil performance? Also tell us what the analysis shows about the oil performance itself, differentiated from the engine operating conditions and design.

 

[doublebase]

Exactly, they market it with a premium price, so what exactly are you getting for that premium price? Or maybe perhaps the price is no different at all at the factory level, which then is an indicator that the oil is really no different than the others are the same price point.

If the label says "cleans better in turbo and gdi engines" and it really doesn't clean better vs any other model of oil, then I call that label false claims. Yeah, I know, for some the claims will be shown in some special lab, which has no real-world counterpart in application.

I think the problem with a claim like that is that it’s so hard to prove/disprove. Outside of the lab, were talking about used vehicles with who knows how many miles are on them...and almost no one is actually going to check, compare, measure any cleaning effects.

So it really comes down to price because let’s face it, all these companies make their claims, very few of them are measurable by the average person or worth the measurement. It’s marketing, it’s fancy bottles and misleading or not all that important claims. So, in my opinion it comes down to price, reputation, and industry standards that the oil has to meet (and we all know most will do the bare minimum). I never once considered Valvoline’s claims when I bought the oil...only the price (but it is a very nice looking bottle, lol).

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

We don’t know. I’m glad they clearances it out as it obviously was not a fast mover at a Wal Mart or Autozone. If you want to use it, go find some and report back to us. I will use some of the VME 5w20 soon

Got some of this VME 5w-30 when AZ had their big clearance last winter for $10 a Jug. For $10 a Jug I'd buy any Valvoline Full Synthetic.

 

[PimTac]

That was a great deal you got Johnny.

 

[M56959]

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Being civil with each other is expected.

Question was asked and answered.