Is Anyone Else Disappointed with modern engine oils?

[carl1963]

We keep getting told modern oils are so advanced, over-engineered and overkill yet time and time again we see engines using good oil and good OCIs having sludge and varnish inside them as well as clogged rings. It's not even the typical low quality Kia/Hyundai cars. It's every brand: take any run of the mill car on the road with more than 20k miles, it has sludge and varnish forming inside and the owner will likely tell you it uses a quart or more between changes.

That thread about the 2 Broncos running HPL and Valvoline Restore and Protect really got me thinking. Why are modern engines so sludge/clogged ring prone? Are turbos cooking the oil? Is GDI diluting the viscosity and additives? Are OLMs not coming on soon enough? Are low tension rings spreading soot throughout the engine?
Or are these overhyped modern oils simply not up to the task of keeping modern engines clean?

I think Valvoline Restore and Protect and presumably it's new competition from Mobil 1 is the start of a new generation of oils that can actually handle keeping modern engines clean. Valvoline Restore and Protect has shown time and time again it can clean an already dirty engine but it looks like that level of active aggressive cleaning that other oils don't have is also needed just to keep a modern engine clean throughout it's life from 0 miles to junkyard.

But why did it take all this time just for us to only have 1 (possibly 2) adequate oils for these engines that have been in production for 10+ years since the mass market adoption of GDI, VVT and turbos?

 

[ripcord]

Modern cars (for the past 20 or so years) have thin, low tension oil and compression rings. This makes them more susceptible to getting carboned up. If we used yesterday's oils in today's engines, the problems would be a lot worse.

It seems like many people here have the impression that rings stuck with carbon are something new. I have torn down 60s and 70s that had rings that were stuck from carbon. Any engine builder will tell you the same.

If anything, we have significantly more durable engines today than before. The median number of miles on the average car on the road today in the USA is pushing 150k and the great majority of them have a lot of miles left in them.

 

[loneryder]

Has Mobil claimed that theirs cleans rings?

 

[ctechbob]

Outside of this small corner of the internet, no one cares.

Average Joe Blow that trades his car in every 3-5 years doesn't care what oil he uses and Joe Average that buys used cars probably thinks that burning oil is just part of the game.

 

[Zee09]

Outside of this small corner of the internet, no one cares.

Average Joe Blow that trades his car in every 3-5 years doesn't care what oil he uses and Joe Average that buys used cars probably thinks that burning oil is just part of the game.

Yup....agreed
I like to get around like an oil slut
Try everything but I'm not a spec sheet psycho reader and one and done and on to the next...

 

[ctechbob]

Yup....agreed
I like to get around like an oil slut
Try everything but I'm not a spec sheet psycho reader and one and done and on to the next...

I guess I'm just lazy. I pick one and then stick with it for everything until I come up with a valid (in my mind) reason to change.

It was the boxed Havoline LifeLong for about 5 years, and now I'm on Boxed R&P for all 4 vehicles I service. Only thing I change up is Transmission fluid since the Truck can't use anything but ULV, but other than that, everything is Maxlife ATF, including the t-case in the 2025 F150.

 

[Japanese]

We keep getting told modern oils are so advanced, over-engineered and overkill yet time and time again we see engines using good oil and good OCIs having sludge and varnish inside them as well as clogged rings. It's not even the typical low quality Kia/Hyundai cars. It's every brand: take any run of the mill car on the road with more than 20k miles, it has sludge and varnish forming inside and the owner will likely tell you it uses a quart or more between changes.

Primarily because people think that running oil from Walmart/AutoZone/AAP for 8K-10K miles and over is O.K. And that's been told them by the car dealership too. Most dealerships put semi-synthetic oil.
Secondary, most people don't don't know and realize what severe driving condition means. Basically any city driving is severe driving condition. Severe driving conditions add up during winter and summer.

Severe driving conditions:
- heavy traffic areas
- repeatedly driving short distances at low speeds
- repeatedly driving long distances at high speeds
- driving uphill or downhill
- driving in stop and go conditions

Third, since about 20 years ago emissions and environment protection became more important that car's engine longevity hence oils became more environmentally and cat. converter friendly which challenged their lubricating abilities.

 

[Zee09]

I guess I'm just lazy. I pick one and then stick with it for everything until I come up with a valid (in my mind) reason to change.

It was the boxed Havoline for about 5 years, and now I'm on Boxed R&P for all 4 vehicles I service. Only thing I change up is Transmission fluid since the Truck can't use anything but ULV, but other than that, everything is Maxlife ATF, including the t-case in the 2025 F150.

One possible problem with that theory is if the oil was suspect you'd have an early failure and thus you're better to switch up often...of course some humor but it could actually happen if you were a cheapskate just looking to buy bargain basement oils or even expensive ones with bogus approvals not to mention that one brand we all know here.

Instead of constantly using a suspect oil you'd only use it once instead of all the time.... it is a possibility even if it's just a oil that creates sludge like in the early 60-70s

 

[ATex7239]

I’ve had maybe two or three vehicles consume oil. The vast majority have not. I’m not using boutique oils either. Used blends and conventional more than anything up until the last 5 or so years. Most of my DIY oils have been the standard name brand offerings, Quaker State, Valvoline, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil.

Some say a cheap oil with a short interval is better than an expensive oil with a long interval. I say get the more expensive oil and still keep the interval short. And saying it’s “expensive” is being generous. Good oil cost less than a tank of gas for most applications.

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Modern cars (for the past 20 or so years) have thin, low tension oil and compression rings. This makes them more susceptible to getting carboned up. If we used yesterday's oils in today's engines, the problems would be a lot worse.

It seems like many people here have the impression that rings stuck with carbon are something new. I have torn down 60s and 70s that had rings that were stuck from carbon. Any engine builder will tell you the same.

If anything, we have significantly more durable engines today than before. The median number of miles on the average car on the road today in the USA is pushing 150k and the great majority of them have a lot of miles left in them.

Ppl are also obsessed with buying junk generic fuels that are not going to burn as clean either. I personally try and only purchase shell gas. Both of my vehicles require premium

 

[Oillover]

No, I'm not disappointed.
I know the basic principles of engines/turbos/lubricants haven't changed much since I first learnt them in high school over 25 years ago.
The new fangled tech is just more garbage sold to unsuspecting fools who are easily sold by 0-60 times and glitzy touchscreens.

Besides, who doesn't enjoy learning of some fool with a "hot V" powered BMW that destroyed his engine on the Autobahn while doing extended OCI's on 0w20.
I know I certainly do!

 

[Wireman1987]

its not the oil. Begins with the owners/drivers, lack of maintenance and modern vehicle engine design. maybe i am also lucky.. the most expensive oil that i run is Castrol Edge (blk jug), Mobil 1 (AFE) mostly it has been NAPA full synthetic when on-sale, Kirkland signature synthetic or Super tech full synthetic oil is always right there on the dip stick like the day i done the oil change.

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

ICEs are not meant to be super clean. Most here are just OCD

 

[doublebase]

There are a lot of factors contributing to oil consumption/varnish/sludge in modern engines…starting with direct injection, followed by low tension rings, followed by piston design (specifically drain back holes and piston grooves), add in turbos and hotter running oil, and throw in longer intervals with no one opening their hoods to check the oil level. Viola

 

[PontiacHO]

Outside of this small corner of the internet, no one cares.

Average Joe Blow that trades his car in every 3-5 years doesn't care what oil he uses and Joe Average that buys used cars probably thinks that burning oil is just part of the game.

Agreed. A step further…Overwhelming majority of car owners don’t care about having their cars on a reasonable service schedule. The oil might get changed when the car has another problem that puts it in the shop. If it goes three years and 30+ thousand miles on the oil, who cares.

 

[ChrisD46]

Bulk oil usage , OCI’s which are too long and poor condition PCV valves are the usual suspects . Even a poorly designed Hyundai engine run on Mobil 1 with <5K mile OCI’s will produce a clean engine (with the exception of possible ring and piston deposits).

 

[Cujet]

239,000 miles on my Jaguar X-Type using modern engine oils. And that's on an engine known for connecting rod bearing failures and early demise. No signs of oil use, timing chain problems, bearing issues or unusual noises. Just buttery smooth operation.

Just keep in mind, I don't use low viscosity oils.

While not a great picture, looking around with a flashlight shows perfect cleanliness. Not even a hint of sludge or varnish.

 

[fdcg27]

We may be painting with too broad a brush here.
There are certain engines with specific known pattern failures that no oil or drain interval is going to fix.
There are plenty of other engines that lead long and happy lives with the recommended grade of oil changed at recommended intervals which could not have done so using the oils of years ago.
Another factor to consider is that engines today have specific outputs well beyond what was common twenty years ago. Quite pedestrian NA fours will deliver 70 bhp/liter (I have two of these) while workaday turbos deliver 100-120 bhp/liter.

 

[Andyd95]

Modern oils are fantastic

Take your pick of off the shelf stuff (M1, Castrol, etc), an OE or Premium Guard filter, and a 5k OCI and you are fine.

The problem is extended oil change intervals, modern engines that are extremely tough on oil, and people using cheap bulk oil (dealers, quick lubes, etc).

 

[SC Maintenance]

Are modern engines really that bad?

None of the cars in my footer burn any oil. My 2002 GC did not burn any oil (4.7) at 200K. My Grand Marquis did not burn any oil?

I know some burn oil from new. The rest I would say is poor maintenance no?