Is 5W-30 in a 5W-20 engine O.K.?

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Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
We just lost our rav4 engine to the Toyota service centre putting 20wt in and I'm [censored]! WAS a wonderfull engine. only 50K miles.


Would you mind elaborating? What engine did you have and what happened? I have RAV4 and would like to know.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite

We just lost our rav4 engine to the Toyota service centre putting 20wt in and I'm [censored]!... I would be leery on your 09... Lost a new KIA to 20wt back specing and our new Subaru has a rod knock, day-1 on 20wt. SO MY junkyard is littered with 20wt casulties, Now ford hond thats a diff story. They know how to build a 20wt engine.


spankme2.gif
Thats gotta hurt...
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: zoomie
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
use the 30 - this is a CAFE back spec for this 1.8L. Mine hates 20wt.


ARCOg, would you mind posting your CAFE spec source please & thank-you? My '09 engine is the 2ZR-FE 1.8L and is different than the '08 models 1ZZ-FE 1.8L and also new is the 20wt specification.

Is your Yaris 1.5L 1NZ-FE 20wt spec?
May yaris is 5w-30 and HEAVIER. It usually need a little 1/2 qt M4T in there for high speed highway. But I drive 75-85 typ on my 1 hour commute. AFA CAFE goes, only N.A. use the 20wt AFAIK. We just lost our rav4 engine to the Toyota service centre putting 20wt in and I'm [censored]! WAS a wonderfull engine. only 50K miles. Read that TSB carefully, it doe NOT say you can back spec the oil weight on older models - you HAVE to use the 5w-30 as the lightest grade if that is what is on the CAP and manual. Period. I would be leery on your 09. Lost a new KIA to 20wt back specing and our new Subaru has a rod knock, day-1 on 20wt. SO MY junkyard is littered with 20wt casulties, Now ford hond thats a diff story. They know how to build a 20wt engine.


Wow that's some bad luck. A Bitog buddy is running 20wt oil in a HM Ford and is very happy with it, his was back spec'd from a 30wt oil. He claims it's running very strong, with no noises at all. Maybe Ford and Honda do know how to make a 20wt engine?

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5w20 grade oils have been on the market for 9 years now. There are no issues with 20 grade oils in engines that call for it. ILSAC GF-4 oils are supposedly so good that for GF-5 wear control requirements are remaining the same. There are no wear control issues with today's oils in modern engines.
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
. . . May yaris is 5w-30 and HEAVIER.
That is NOT correct. Here it is from the Toyota TIS maintenance pubs for the 08 Yaris.
Yaris-Oil.jpg

Nothing there about "heavier". BTW, the NZ series engines, some of them anyway, have a habit of diluting their oil with fuel. That would be the most probable reason Toyota has declined to prescribe 20 wt oil for this engine series.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
It usually need a little 1/2 qt M4T in there for high speed highway.

I have not seen anything in the pubs about adding motorcycle oil to the crankcase of the 1NZ series engine. I guess all the other Yaris owners missed it too which would explain all the broken down Yari I see on the roadsides here. . .
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
But I drive 75-85 typ on my 1 hour commute. AFA CAFE goes, only N.A. use the 20wt AFAIK.
So do I. No problems.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
We just lost our rav4 engine to the Toyota service centre putting 20wt in and I'm [censored]! WAS a wonderfull engine. only 50K miles.
Even if you beat the heck out of it on 20 wt oil, it would still last longer than 50k miles. Please scan and post the diagnostic report indicating that the use of 20 wt oil killled a Toyota engine for which 20 wt was specified.

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Read that TSB carefully, it doe NOT say you can back spec the oil weight on older models - you HAVE to use the 5w-30 as the lightest grade if that is what is on the CAP and manual. Period.

Yes, by all means, you should read TSB EG018-06 very carefully. And note how it sets out Toyota's position regarding 5w-20 oil, as in:
Quote:
ILSAC GF–4 SAE 5W–20
This oil has been set as the Toyota genuine engine oil, starting in February 2006 for the U.S. This oil is superior in terms of fuel economy, engine protection, and cold starting performance. (emphasis added).


Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I would be leery on your 09. Lost a new KIA to 20wt back specing and our new Subaru has a rod knock, day-1 on 20wt. SO MY junkyard is littered with 20wt casulties, Now ford hond thats a diff story. They know how to build a 20wt engine.

I guess that you're just the unluckiest guy in the whole CAFE zone. . .
 
Wow lost two engines to 20 wt oil? I'd say he's the most unluckiest guy in the world too! I'm still waiting for my back spec'd 93 Ford with 173,000 + miles to give out on the 20 grade oil.
 
First to answer the OP's question, as said it should be OK to run the 30 weight in your car. That said, it sounds to me like your local dealer, like many, is trying to save money, by having a bulk 5w30 instead of the recommended 5w20.

Now for the rest of the urban legend myths being spun by the ever present heavier is better spin doctors. The same heavier is better folks that always point to what the Euro's do. Who cares what they do? Not me.

The next move after what the Euro's do deal, is to point out some anecdotal tidbit like cam lobe failure or now even better, total engine failure. That's rich.
smirk2.gif


Of course one of the anecdotal tidbits is spread by the same poster that said to "stay away" from Motorcraft Syn Blend, that it is a "Bad oil" and "Waste of money", so what would you expect?
wink.gif


Go back and read buster's and ekpolk's posts, that spells it out in a nutshell.
 
I agree. In reality, there would be few situations in the real world (if any, really) where there'd be any real harm done by using a 30 wt oil in an engine that is spec-ed for a 20. On the other hand, I see no real reason to do so, unless it's something strictly practical, as in you have already drained your oil, only to find that you mistakenly bought a case of 30 instead of 20.

I suppose the real question would be, "why bother with a 30 wt when the recommended 20 will probably perform better and save you a modest amount of fuel?" Here's a little "just for fun". I collected the links below from our Gasoline UOA section. There are ten of our newest 20 wt UOAs, and ten of our oldest 20 wt UOAs. One or two of them show elevated iron, but that's clearly from another problem (Si), not the oil, and besides, it's not as if we don't see poor 30 wt UOA too. Otherwise, they're all STELLAR!
Ancient 20 wt UOAs from BITOG:

Old 20 UOA-1
Old 20 UOA-2
Old 20 UOA-3
Old 20 UOA-4
Old 20 UOA-5
Old 20 UOA-6
Old 20 UOA-7
Old 20 UOA-8
Old 20 UOA-9
Old 20 UOA-10

And the newest ten:

New 20 UOA-1
New 20 UOA-2
New 20 UOA-3
New 20 UOA-4
New 20 UOA-5
New 20 UOA-6
New 20 UOA-7
New 20 UOA-8
New 20 UOA-9
New 20 UOA-10

So, for all of you who are utterly and absolutely convinced that the 20 wt oils are liquid evil that will not protect your engine, how can you explain the long-term, consistent, objective record that the 20 wt oils have generated? Obviously, UOAs like this don't tell the whole story, but if the 20s were no good, we'd be seeing indications of that by now, from users and their UOA. But it's not happening. The 20s are, if anything, doing better than the 30.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Wow lost two engines to 20 wt oil? I'd say he's the most unluckiest guy in the world too! I'm still waiting for my back spec'd 93 Ford with 173,000 + miles to give out on the 20 grade oil.





Originally Posted By: ekpolk


So, for all of you who are utterly and absolutely convinced that the 20 wt oils are liquid evil that will not protect your engine, how can you explain the long-term, consistent, objective record that the 20 wt oils have generated? Obviously, UOAs like this don't tell the whole story, but if the 20s were no good, we'd be seeing indications of that by now, from users and their UOA. But it's not happening. The 20s are, if anything, doing better than the 30.


Anyone who had two failures with the use of 5w-20 oil, I'd say that the driver has to be the common in fully integrated element in the failure process. That's probably up there with hitting the jackpot on the Powerball twice.


Anyone can compete for a failure analysis position. Based on my own driving techniques from the day I got my license through a good bit of my 20's, I'd say that most engines are very durable and forgiving of insult. I don't think I've ever worn out an engine to the point of it not being worthy of being kept in service. Not even close and I've literally beat the tar out of more than a few.

I'd have to want to destroy them.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
... I'd say that most engines are very durable and forgiving of insult. I don't think I've ever worn out an engine to the point of it not being worthy of being kept in service.


I'm trying to get to this point with my Santa Fe with regular driving. Will be interesting to see how long my 2.7 V6 holds out and if I can get the $50 out of my brother who bet me it wouldn't hold out for 500K KM (300K Miles)

Apparently it's a very sturdy engine and one of the best Hyundai has ever put out. It's not very peppy compared to their other V6's but it is very dependable.

Even if I have to put a transmission in the truck I would... It would be worth it as my body is in new like condition due to the rust-proofing done every year.
 
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
... I'd say that most engines are very durable and forgiving of insult. I don't think I've ever worn out an engine to the point of it not being worthy of being kept in service.


... It would be worth it as my body is in new like condition due to the rust-proofing done every year.

Wow. Do you get any chafing with that treatment? Seems like it would be uncomfortable.
crazy2.gif
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: SAJEFFC
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
... I'd say that most engines are very durable and forgiving of insult. I don't think I've ever worn out an engine to the point of it not being worthy of being kept in service.


... It would be worth it as my body is in new like condition due to the rust-proofing done every year.

Wow. Do you get any chafing with that treatment? Seems like it would be uncomfortable.
crazy2.gif
crackmeup2.gif



mori2
54.gif
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
We just lost our rav4 engine to the Toyota service centre putting 20wt in and I'm [censored]! WAS a wonderfull engine. only 50K miles.


Would you mind elaborating? What engine did you have and what happened? I have RAV4 and would like to know.


ArcoGraphite, it's been 2 weeks now, but you still haven't answered Friendly_Jacek's and others' request for elaboration. We sure are curious to know more about why you "lost" your RAV4 and Kia engines to 20-weight oil. Do you have any proof that 20-weight was the cause? It's easy to say something, but where's the proof? What exactly happened to the engines? "Lost" is kind of vague :)

By "lost," do you mean you were able to get the dealerships to take back the in-warranty RAV4 and Kia so you could get a Yaris and Subaru instead? {chuckle}.
 
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Since you're putting motorcycle oil into your Yaris automobile, I gotta ask if you did the same with the RAV4? Any other things you might have put into the RAV4's crankcase? If so, when you "gave the RAV4 back to the dealership," did you let them know that you had put motorcycle oil into the car's crankcase? {Lol}

I pity the New Hampshire dealerships ;-)
They may have a serial car killer on their hands {chuckle}

By the way, if you're driving 85 mph on the highways during your regular daily work commute, how fast are you going on your fun days: 100? 115? And how often? Should the dealer really be responsible for taking back an abused car like that?

I'd ordinarily be on your side, but you've had to take back both a RAV4 and a Kia. Just doesn't look right. I'm spelling this out for my fellow newbies who might actually take seriously your statement that 20-weight oil killed your cars :)
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
I agree. In reality, there would be few situations in the real world (if any, really) where there'd be any real harm done by using a 30 wt oil in an engine that is spec-ed for a 20. On the other hand, I see no real reason to do so, unless it's something strictly practical, as in you have already drained your oil, only to find that you mistakenly bought a case of 30 instead of 20.

I suppose the real question would be, "why bother with a 30 wt when the recommended 20 will probably perform better and save you a modest amount of fuel?" Here's a little "just for fun". I collected the links below from our Gasoline UOA section. There are ten of our newest 20 wt UOAs, and ten of our oldest 20 wt UOAs. One or two of them show elevated iron, but that's clearly from another problem (Si), not the oil, and besides, it's not as if we don't see poor 30 wt UOA too. Otherwise, they're all STELLAR!
Ancient 20 wt UOAs from BITOG:

Old 20 UOA-1
Old 20 UOA-2
Old 20 UOA-3
Old 20 UOA-4
Old 20 UOA-5
Old 20 UOA-6
Old 20 UOA-7
Old 20 UOA-8
Old 20 UOA-9
Old 20 UOA-10

And the newest ten:

New 20 UOA-1
New 20 UOA-2
New 20 UOA-3
New 20 UOA-4
New 20 UOA-5
New 20 UOA-6
New 20 UOA-7
New 20 UOA-8
New 20 UOA-9
New 20 UOA-10

So, for all of you who are utterly and absolutely convinced that the 20 wt oils are liquid evil that will not protect your engine, how can you explain the long-term, consistent, objective record that the 20 wt oils have generated? Obviously, UOAs like this don't tell the whole story, but if the 20s were no good, we'd be seeing indications of that by now, from users and their UOA. But it's not happening. The 20s are, if anything, doing better than the 30.


There are some of us that realize UOAs don't tell the whole story when teardowns show the opposite of what the UOAs showed.

Just repeat, thicker is better and thinner is the devil.
crazy2.gif
 
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