Is 11,200 km OCI's Safe on an 06 Civic on 5w-20?

[Idrinkmotoroil]

My OLM went off at about 11,200 kms this week suggesting to change the oil. This was on the factory fill, so its the first oil change. I'd say about 7,000 of those kms were highway kms, if no more. Anyone feel safe with this type of OCI on conventional 5w-20 ?. Call me old school but it sounds a bit long to me. In miles that is about 6500 miles or so.

I got the oil change done at one of those Quaker State lube shops, the car felt a lot smoother and quieter after the oil change. I thought they may have put in 5w-30 or something, but the invoice says 5w-20. I think I'll do a short OCI on this oil and then switch to Mobil1. The lube shop put one of those reminder stickers on the car , telling me to do the next oil change in 5000 kms (3000 miles) Any opinions would be helpful. thanks

Joey

 

[pitzel]

Sure. The same car, in the United States, specifies 16k km oil changes, and even that interval has been shown here to be conservative. The conditions in Canada for operating cars are somewhat less severe than the USA, so longer intervals should be even more appropriate.

I would feel perfectly comfortable with a 16k km OCI with that car, and even longer (ie: 25-30k km's) with an initial UOA and synthetic oil. While the car is under warranty, however, stick with the recommendations in the manual to avoid any warranty hassle.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I would like to see a picture of the inside of that engine when/if it reaches 175km's. OLM spelled backward is..... (M)anufacturer (L)ying to (O)wner

 

[Titan]

777, good one!

IdrinkMO: sure, it's "safe" for that engine. I wouldn't do it the way you did, but, I'm quite possibly insane. Really. I would have that factory fill out very early...1000 miles tops. Yes, I know what Honda says about that. I don't think it is anything more than trying to project the idea that Hondas require very little maintenance to last a long time....which I think is true! However, "special" factory fill? Nah. I've had maybe 20 new cars in my life, and EVERY one of them has glitter in the oil that first change. Even Hondas...and I've had 4 of those, plus a couple of Honda motorcycles. That glitter isn't good to have going through the engine...and I'm not sure why the filters aren't picking it up and keeping it confined (maybe OEM filters use end-cap pressure relief valves, so when it opens, the oil is passing by the dirty pleats and picking up this stuff so it ends back up in the oil stream?)...but, the glitter is obviously present in that first change. I DO NOT see this glitter on subsequent changes.

Anyway, the new SM, GF-4 rated 5w-20 oils will take that mileage and protect the engine just fine.

 

[2000civic]

Dude are you nuts, don't waste your money on Mobil 1 we live in Canada where we can get XD3. Only with a syn would I go past 5k OCI, no way would I trust the OLM.

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

I think the factory oil must have been very thin, cause this aftermarket 5w-20 feels a lot smoother.

The owner's manual says very little about maintenance, just to follow the OLM and on-board indicators, it's the first car I've owned that has had so little maintenance information. At least they tell you how to reset the OLM because the guys at Quaker State didn't know how to do it.

 

[paulinfiji]

Operating a vehicle in most part of Canada is slightly more severe than the US; Not the other way around. Your Honda owner's manual should say to refer to 'severe maintenance schedule' when operating a vehicle in Canada.

 

[pitzel]

"Operating a vehicle in most part of Canada is slightly more severe than the US"

How so? Cooler temperatures = less thermal weardown of the motor oil. Less traffic/congestion = less thermal weardown of the motor oil. Lower highway speeds (100km/hr versus 65mph) = less thermal weardown of the motor oil.

Canada's conditions are less severe than the US. The manual recommendations of increased frequency of oil changes are fairly nonsensical when it comes to Canadian drivers.

 

[Nickdfresh]

Funny, but I've been on the QEW around Toronto enough to know that cars are driven at least as harshly in CANADA...

 

[the_oil_dealer]

oh yea the QEW is a diff story. Most highways in the GTA, when it's not gridlock, people think its the Molson Indy

 

[TomJones76]

pitzel:

Lower temperatures increase the odds that your car NEVER gets up to operating temps on short trips in colder months.
I think that's what makes the automakers call Canada "severe".

 

[bob_ninja]

pitzel,
As TJ said, we have "severe" winters and "normal" summers. Sure summers are milder and we should probably follow the "normal" schedule during summer. However, winter temps are much lower. We have a lot of salt on our roads, lot of moisture, etc. Cobmined with short trips, our winter driving can be very tough on oil, hence the Severe schedule.

Idrinkmotoroil,
I would never use a 10K+ km OCI in winter unless the oil is a very good quality synth (such as M1 or XD3) regardless of OLM.

 

[Gary Allan]

Remember pitzel, colder climates made the noridic more introspective. (visions of James T. Kirk performing "in the round". "In every revolution ONE MAN can make a difference!!" - Nope ..it's too cold outside to cause a rukus. I'll sit inside and think about it

)

What's that got to do with OCI?? Got me swinging.

 

[Matt89]

quote:

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Originally posted by bob_ninja:
pitzel,
As TJ said, we have "severe" winters and "normal" summers. Sure summers are milder and we should probably follow the "normal" schedule during summer. However, winter temps are much lower. We have a lot of salt on our roads, lot of moisture, etc. Cobmined with short trips, our winter driving can be very tough on oil, hence the Severe schedule.

Idrinkmotoroil,
I would never use a 10K+ km OCI in winter unless the oil is a very good quality synth (such as M1 or XD3) regardless of OLM.

---

I agree with this, but I do find it funny that Honda etc never said "If you live in Michigan, Wisconsin, Dakotas etc...you have administratively been determined to be Canadian and should follow the severe schedule too".

 

[Idrinkmotoroil]

we live in the banana belt of canada, which is warmer than a lot of northern US states. But yeah I gotta invest in a good quality synthetic in order to follow Honda's OLM. But seriously, they have done away with much of their maintenance recommendations, everything now appears on the dashboard and you take your car in to the dealer. Very little information given to the driver anymore, and no real normal or severe duty information either.

 

[pitzel]

"Lower temperatures increase the odds that your car NEVER gets up to operating temps on short trips in colder months.
I think that's what makes the automakers call Canada "severe"."

Yes, but Hondas, with their very small engines and very close-in cat converters, among other things, in my experience, warm up very quickly.

Cold operation of an engine with good fuel control isn't really a factor in sludging versus non-sludging. I've never seen sludging because of cold temps -- now high temperatures (due to inadequate oil, or due to high ambient temps or inadequate cooling) will definitely cause sludge.

And salt? What on earth does that have to do with engine oil? Its not like salt ingresses into an engine because its sprayed on the roads. Maybe a few ppm of Na or K will show up in UOAs, but nothing that would cause any harm in an engine.

I personally suspect Honda's strange recommendation for Canada has more to do with enhancing the profitability of their Canadian operations, rather than actually based on scientific principals or empirical analysis.

 

[bob_ninja]

quote:

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And salt? What on earth does that have to do with engine oil? Its not like salt ingresses into an engine because its sprayed on the roads. Maybe a few ppm of Na or K will show up in UOAs, but nothing that would cause any harm in an engine.

---

I was refering to indirect effects of salt. Without salt and temperatures in Ottawa being below zero for 3+ months we would have absolutely no water any place! Hence no corrosion and moisture getting into oil. Air would be very dry all winter long.

Instead, we have salt helping to melt snow and ice, hence tires are kicking up water from road surface and increasing humidity - more corrosion and water getting into oil.

So it is the secondary effect of salt that I was referring to.

 

[bob_ninja]

pitzel,

Forgot to ask if you have a better explanation for the shorter OCI in the Severe schedule? My older Hondas both have half the OCI in severe as opposed to normal schedule. I think normal is 10K and severe is 5K, or could be 8/4. Why?

 

[pitzel]

quote:

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I was refering to indirect effects of salt. Without salt and temperatures in Ottawa being below zero for 3+ months we would have absolutely no water any place! Hence no corrosion and moisture getting into oil. Air would be very dry all winter long.

Instead, we have salt helping to melt snow and ice, hence tires are kicking up water from road surface and increasing humidity - more corrosion and water getting into oil.

---

Trying to follow your logic, but it doesn't make sense. Engines do not ingest 'corrosion', nor to they ingest 'water' from the air or the roads themselves. If they did, water and salt elements (Na, K) would show up in UOA's. Clearly that hasn't been happening in the UOA's presented in the UOA section here of the Canadian winter-operated vehicles. At worst, there is slightly more wear due to cold starts, and a ppm or two of Na, but no more.

Also, in the wintertime, there is considerably less dust in the air which has its own benefits when it comes to motor oil, albeit filters end up effectively dealing with most of the dust.

quote:

---

Forgot to ask if you have a better explanation for the shorter OCI in the Severe schedule? My older Hondas both have half the OCI in severe as opposed to normal schedule. I think normal is 10K and severe is 5K, or could be 8/4. Why?

---

Well 'severe service' has its place -- for vehicles that see constant and high amounts of short operating cycles, towing, racing, operation on dirt roads, etc. I just disagree that the cooler temperatures of Canada place more severe demands on engine oil versus the relatively warmer temperatures of the USA.

Yes cooler temperatures lead to slightly higher startup wear, but the presence of startup wear products is hardly an issue in motor oil until you are into the several hundred ppm range for ferrous metals. And silicate concentrations are dependant primarily on overall airflow -- overall airflow actually would be less during cool weather due to the greater mass per unit volume air at cooler temperatures (therefore, reduced silicate ingress)

 

[thooks]

quote:

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Originally posted by Idrinkmotoroil:
I think I'll do a short OCI on this oil and then switch to Mobil1.

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You ran the factory fill until the "OLM" came on, got the oil changed at a quick-lube with who knows what and what filter, and you are going to do a "short" OCI with this oil and then switch to M1?


Tell me what makes sense in all of this.


What you did- isn't that like going out and blowing $3000 on a shotgun that you are unfamiliar with, then logging on to a gun forum and asking them if you got a good deal??