Interesting read: Toyota's 1:6:90 rule about lithium

[AZjeff]

Toyota isn't all in to make EVs and this article explains why. This paragraph is to the point:

Enter Toyota: A leaked document reveals the automaker told its dealership network that the lithium and other rare materials required to build an EV could also be enough for six plug-in hybrids. Or, it could make 90 hybrids. What’s more, swapping 90 internal combustion cars for hybrids is much better for the environment than building one full EV. Much, much better. Toyota: “The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as as single battery EV.”

Full article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...n&cvid=31aa90150cca4a19a5bfa482daeea659&ei=81

 

[demarpaint]

This should be good.......... The more I read about Toyota the more I like them.

 

[14.1 Grms]

When logic beats histrionic marketing hyperbole...nice.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Seems Volvo has a different conclusion.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/...com/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf

 

[JHZR2]

Toyota isn't all in to make EVs and this article explains why. This paragraph is to the point:

Full article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...n&cvid=31aa90150cca4a19a5bfa482daeea659&ei=81

That makes all the sense in the world.

That said…

Hybrids get both the best and the worst of both worlds…
More parts, more complexity, more systems…

But it makes total,sense if we can perfect smaller scale ice and not destroy it splitting ppb levels of pollutants the way some folks have destroyed diesels..

 

[JHZR2]

Seems Volvo has a different conclusion.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/...com/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf

The wind electricity assumption in there throws me off a bit.

If Volvo is a proxy of China, who controls most aspects of Ali-ion materials and production, and not oil… of course their findings may be different…

 

[Vercingetorix]

The wind electricity assumption in there throws me off a bit.

If Volvo is a proxy of China, who controls most aspects of Ali-ion materials and production, and not oil… of course their findings may be different…

Aaah and then there’s the trilateral commission.

 

[mk378]

Lithium is not rare.

 

[AZjeff]

Lithium is not rare.

But it's apparently only in concentrations that make viable mining in very few locations.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Dont read too much into these statements, its masterclass in disinformation, similar to the most controversial statement about how evs will only ever reach 30% of marketshare. They run contrary to internal and external targets.

1) Lexus plans to become battery electric only by 2030.
2) Lexus plans to launch ssbs in mass production by 2028
3) Toyota plans to launch a 700 mile range bev by 2025
4) Toyota current main source of profit are phev and hev, and yet they are supply constrained. This statement posted above is (actually posted a year ago) what they really were responding to. Their internal plans never really forecasted such growth and battery demand, and thus they are caught flat footed. If you look at toyota they also in the process of building multiple battery plants around the world.

All in all, the industry as a whole knows how clever toyota is, they say one thing, but do something else.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Toyota makes the best hybrids; I own one. They make a ton of sense around here, with gas prices. I recently serviced a friend's RAV4 hybrid and drove it back to her; what a nice car!

Toyota makes lousy EVs, which is odd... I imagine they will do better going forward.
I haven't driven the new Prius.

 

[nicholas]

Toyota isn't all in to make EVs and this article explains why. This paragraph is to the point:

Full article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/aut...n&cvid=31aa90150cca4a19a5bfa482daeea659&ei=81

It makes complete sense.......

 

[UncleDave]

Lithium is not rare.

Correct, nor are we predicted to run out of rare earths.

 

[Ws6]

Dont read too much into these statements, its masterclass in disinformation, similar to the most controversial statement about how evs will only ever reach 30% of marketshare. They run contrary to internal and external targets.

1) Lexus plans to become battery electric only by 2030.
2) Lexus plans to launch ssbs in mass production by 2028
3) Toyota plans to launch a 700 mile range bev by 2025
4) Toyota current main source of profit are phev and hev, and yet they are supply constrained. This statement posted above is (actually posted a year ago) what they really were responding to. Their internal plans never really forecasted such growth and battery demand, and thus they are caught flat footed. If you look at toyota they also in the process of building multiple battery plants around the world.

All in all, the industry as a whole knows how clever toyota is, they say one thing, but do something else.

Absolutely. They have been hamstrung by their old CEO, and they have nothing competitive. Thats why, in part, the Lexus CEO took over and Toyoda stepped down. Toyota has just bombed everything lately. Tundra, Rav4, their EVs.

 

[demarpaint]

Seems Volvo has a different conclusion.
https://www.volvocars.com/images/v/...com/pdf/c40/volvo-c40-recharge-lca-report.pdf

No surprise, but I'd put my money with Toyota on this one. Opinions will vary.

 

[Revving2Redline]

This should be good.......... The more I read about Toyota the more I like them.

My faith in Toyota and Honda is much higher than what's being made up North.

 

[Vercingetorix]

My faith in Toyota and Honda is much higher than what's being made up North.

Without seeing Toyotas or Hondas version of the Volvo report isn’t faith and not science exactly what you’re using?

 

[paulri]

I didn't see the report linked to in the original article posted above; below is what I was able to get. It isn't really a report, but a summary of their conclusions:

 

[dogememe]

Good marketing. The BZ4X sucks. Either incompetence or intentional to sell more hybrids.

 

[JHZR2]

Aaah and then there’s the trilateral commission.

I wouldn’t know about that. But if your feeder of money and tech is pushing for you to do one thing, then of course you’ll push that with the rationale stated in your favor…. As imsaid, the wind sourced energy in the document lost me, as thst creates a ton of assumptions to get to the emissions numbers claimed.

Dont read too much into these statements, its masterclass in disinformation, similar to the most controversial statement about how evs will only ever reach 30% of marketshare. They run contrary to internal and external targets.

1) Lexus plans to become battery electric only by 2030.
2) Lexus plans to launch ssbs in mass production by 2028
3) Toyota plans to launch a 700 mile range bev by 2025
4) Toyota current main source of profit are phev and hev, and yet they are supply constrained. This statement posted above is (actually posted a year ago) what they really were responding to. Their internal plans never really forecasted such growth and battery demand, and thus they are caught flat footed. If you look at toyota they also in the process of building multiple battery plants around the world.

All in all, the industry as a whole knows how clever toyota is, they say one thing, but do something else.

Lexus sells how many vehicles as compared to Toyota?
The SSB is a developmental technology, and as I recall, they were not sure of the scalability or production numbers. Ditto for the 700 mile range bev. There’s no cheating physics, you need to have a lot more battery, and generally you fit it in a reasonable sized platform by getting rid of the anode non active material. So what?

Companies spit out these claims because they make it seem like they’re competitive. Different segments, different numbers, different production may make it possible in some segments. They may also be chasing the Tesla approach - make the fancier car first, as they will have better ability to adopt the tech. As much as lexus does badge engineering, a bev lexus fleet is different than a bev Corolla, Camry, Tacoma and tundra, probably by millions of units per year in aggregate. They can dupe the population by taking lexus electric, selling the fifty (using relative made-up numbers here) cars per year there at Lexus, the five crowns with a ssb per year, and then then the 1000 hev and ice only cars on the Toyota nameplate.