Interesting GM presentation on new Dexos for 2016

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Jake777

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If you can sit through it you might find it interesting. All talking about 0w8 and 0w16 as well as next generation Dexos specs in 2016 before GF6. Interesting to hear of the new engines they will be using for the new formulation including a v8. Also they admit to issues with small displacement turbo engines and deposits. takes a while to get good. She mentions a specific driving test that they ran that caused a big problem with deposits so much so that they lost boost. During that test they found that the base oil did not break down but major deposits formed. I just wish you could see the presentation.

http://youtu.be/0B6SHa4qv60
 
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Well I use Dexos approved oils in my Nissan Altima. It is a higher specification than regular API SN ILSAC GF-5. It's not MB 229.5, BMW LL-04 or Porsche A40. But its a decent spec for what it is.
 
loved it. TY! The part of the video that stuck out to me the most was how engine design has a lot to do with how oil performs. anyone else? Also of interest was how 5w-30 was the viscosity and "prototype" for Dexos1 "2.0". does that mean it won't be offered in 10w-30? Is the current Dexos1 offered in any 10w-xx? See my sig where I have used PUP which is Dexos1 certified as well Hondas turbo cert, the HTO-06 but that's going to be dated with Dexos1 2.0? Maybe when the 2016 Civic Type R comes out with the 300 hp turbo, what oil it will require?!
 
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Excellent link. Thank you for that. I'm going to research the roll out of the second generation standard. As far as fuel economy going down with a thinner oil, a couple of possibilities:

1-Cam phasers for VVT that rely on a specific viscosity of oil to operate at the correct time to ensure maximum economy.

2-Undesignated thinner oil use could result in INCREASED friction between moving parts in engines not designed around that thinner oil.

I'm wondering where their ACDelco Dexos blend falls into all of this. From my reading of things that was one of the oils that tended to [censored] out most readily in the 1.4 turbos. It starts with a relatively low TBN as compared to full synthetics and thus seemed to hit the bottom TBN requirement pretty fast in the 1.4 turbo engine. However, the talk that was given in the link above indicated that it wasn't base oil degradation that was providing deposits, rather, an additive package formulation that was the determining factor. So, is it possible that the ACDelco synthetic blend with it's lower TBN (read: reduced additive package) would actually be good for this engine insofar as deposits are concerned? Obviously the oil changes would have to be performed more frequently to ensure a continued minimum TBN.
 
I'm glad you found it interesting I did. It reminds us that it has more to do with the entire chemistry than it does simply base. Also it's interesting to see GM take such a stance on developing a standard for themselves. It's obvious they really do see a need for a specific spec for the future of their engine applications. I too was interested to learn that simply dropping viscosity in some cases resulted in increased fuel consumption and gives credence to the fact that engines really are built around an oil spec most of the time. I have recently been keeping my eye on Maxlife as it meets Dexos and still has a seal conditioner additive that I find useful in a slow leaker.
 
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
loved it. TY! The part of the video that stuck out to me the most was how engine design has a lot to do with how oil performs. anyone else? Also of interest was how 5w-30 was the viscosity and "prototype" for Dexos1 "2.0". does that mean it won't be offered in 10w-30? Is the current Dexos1 offered in any 10w-xx? See my sig where I have used PUP which is Dexos1 certified as well Hondas turbo cert, the HTO-06 but that's going to be dated with Dexos1 2.0? Maybe when the 2016 Civic Type R comes out with the 300 hp turbo, what oil it will require?!



Yes 5w-30 was started as the "prototype" grade back when GM 6094M and 4718M were the only relevant GM specs that were in existence before Dexos, and lead to the final death blow of 10w-30 grade as far as GM were concerned.

From memory it was around 2004/2005 and GM actually made the decision to exclude 10w-30 grade oils for acceptance in the approval process for the above specs.
That decision obviously made 5w-30 the default grade from that point on.

When dexos became a reality the 5w-30 grade was deemed by GM to be backward compatible for the previous specs.

As a result Mobil 1 stopped being available in 10w-30 and was replaced with 5w-30 here in Australia around mid 2007.
 
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Also of interest was how 5w-30 was the viscosity and "prototype" for Dexos1 "2.0". does that mean it won't be offered in 10w-30?

Current dexos1 excludes 10w-30, and I doubt that any updates to the specification would include 10w-30. Beyond what Ducman noted, up here, a large automotive chain started yanking 10w-30 synthetics over a year ago.
 
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well I use Dexos approved oils in my Nissan Altima. It is a higher specification than regular API SN ILSAC GF-5. It's not MB 229.5, BMW LL-04 or Porsche A40. But its a decent spec for what it is.


I agree, it's well above SN but not a heavy & long life Euro spec like MB 229.5. That makes it a very useful spec to have around. I am seeing more dexos oils here in Australia.

I'm a A3/B4 sort of guy, but when Valvoline SynPower DX1 (dexos) was on sale, I found it very hard to resist.
 
I found it interesting when she said an engine designed to use xw30 oil can take a fuel economy hit using xW20 oil. That might mean an engine back spec'd to a 20 grade oil from a 30 might not see any improvement in fuel economy making the switch. Food for though.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I found it interesting when she said an engine designed to use xw30 oil can take a fuel economy hit using xW20 oil. That might mean an engine back spec'd to a 20 grade oil from a 30 might not see any improvement in fuel economy making the switch. Food for though.


Interesting indeed. My 1996 Zetec 2.0L Contour was EVENTUALLY back spec'd to 5W-20 from 5W-30. I said eventually because for a while it was not while most of the Ford engines were back spec'd much earlier. I only drive it from later April to the end of October, so it sees no winter weather. It is garaged for the rest of the time. Locally I get 29 mpg and on the highway any where from 36 to 33, depending on whether I'm doing 65 or 75-80. I doubt 5W-20 would really improve my mpg but I'd be possibly losing some engine oil protection.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I found it interesting when she said an engine designed to use xw30 oil can take a fuel economy hit using xW20 oil.

I doubt 5W-20 would really improve my mpg but I'd be possibly losing some engine oil protection.


Those engines that were back-speced to use a thinner oil probably increased MPG with very little loss of protection via careful selection by engineers.

I do appreciate comments made indicating it is possible to increase friction (lower MPG) when going to a thinner oil in some engines. Must mean the oil film thickness just gets too low in some engines, creating more boundary friction.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Whimsey
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I found it interesting when she said an engine designed to use xw30 oil can take a fuel economy hit using xW20 oil.

I doubt 5W-20 would really improve my mpg but I'd be possibly losing some engine oil protection.


Those engines that were back-speced to use a thinner oil probably increased MPG with very little loss of protection via careful selection by engineers.

I do appreciate comments made indicating it is possible to increase friction (lower MPG) when going to a thinner oil in some engines. Must mean the oil film thickness just gets too low in some engines, creating more boundary friction.


Interesting you mention increased friction diminishing FE cause when I "poured" 1 qt of 10-30 PYB into a 5w-30 Val SP OCI, my FE shot up (started with a stick gas needle) Makes sens because decreased friction (thru MOly as a FM) increases FE just like you eloquently put it!
 
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Interesting you mention increased friction diminishing FE cause when I "poured" 1 qt of 10-30 PYB into a 5w-30 Val SP OCI, my FE shot up (started with a stick gas needle) Makes sens because decreased friction (thru MOly as a FM) increases FE just like you eloquently put it!


Even Google Translate isn't helping me with that.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: 06VtecV6
Interesting you mention increased friction diminishing FE cause when I "poured" 1 qt of 10-30 PYB into a 5w-30 Val SP OCI, my FE shot up (started with a stick gas needle) Makes sens because decreased friction (thru MOly as a FM) increases FE just like you eloquently put it!


Even Google Translate isn't helping me with that.


LOL why bother? Let someone else translate.
wink.gif
 
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