Interesting GM/Ford Story on CNBC

Just checked the quotes.

Ford stock down almost 29% year to date.

GM stock down 34% year to date.


The markets are not confident in these companies.
and why I am thinking of buying them ... :unsure: Im truly serious, Im at a tug of war with myself because I like my current holdings/fully invested and would need to sell something but Im at the brink of possibly buying into one or both of them now with a long term outlook of 3 to 5 years.

With stocks as you know cherry picking short time frames doesnt work unless you are a short term investor but if you were Ford was a better investment than the praised Tesla for 2021 and as of right now at this time, recent quote shows Tesla down 30% year to date.
 
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I'm holding a bunch of Ford stock. However, Ford stated plans to make hundreds of thousands of EV F150's has already ground to a halt, right as the first F150 lightning comes off the line. Batteries are in such short supply, manufacturers can only produce handfuls of EV's.

We should also note that shortages of available rare earth magnets and chips remain in place.

Ford and GM have been producing at about half the normal rate, and many of those vehicles produced go into storage, due to being incomplete.

For those who are thinking that things are good, they ain't.

 
and why I am thinking of buying them ... :unsure: Im truly serious, Im at a tug of war with myself because I like my current holdings/fully invested and would need to sell something but Im at the brink of possibly buying into one or both of them now with a long term outlook of 3 to 5 years.

With stocks as you know cherry picking short time frames doesnt work unless you are a short term investor but if you were Ford was a better investment than the praised Tesla for 2021 and as of right now at this time, recent quote shows Tesla down 30% year to date.


I don’t know if you have seen this but automobile sales have been dropping, mainly due to the economy. There are a few makers that are doing well but in general the big automakers are not.


 
I don’t know if you have seen this but automobile sales have been dropping, mainly due to the economy. There are a few makers that are doing well but in general the big automakers are not.


Ahhh ... yes and why I feel like I want to own GM or Ford or both!
No one is really doing well as far as the stock price and that is what matters to me.
SO to me, GM and Ford are selling at 3 to 5 times earnings and a company like Tesla at 200 times earnings. Tells me Tesla can take a big hit and GM and Ford can only go up.

Here is why. GM and Ford would be selling cars if they could produce them but they have supply issues right now holding them back. We all know, supply issues will at some point subside and to me, at that point the stocks will too. I do not in anyway see this as "the economy"
The economy to me has never been in better shape as far as demand goes, maybe I will go out on a limb and say the economy has never been stronger in modern times (last 50 years) here in the USA ... the only thing to me is it is held back as we come out of a world health event unknown to modern man that created a shortage of materials needed to produce goods.
Americans are itching to spend money, flush with cash, an economy with 0 unemployment rate for those whom wish to work. I dont know, how can it get any better than this??

More or less, again, to me, all the bad news is built into the GM/Ford and go only go up, while all the good news is built into a company like Tesla which I personally see as risky once all the big guys are up and running at full speed in the coming 12 months..

AS far as the auto industry, I think its in fantastic shape to go to the moon, so much pent up demand. Dealers dont have cars to sell, at least around here and that goes for Toyota and Honda too! Once all the big guys start cranking them out I see the Tesla's taking a hit in 24 months or so.
We will see, really interesting to me. But what do I know? Nothing except my thoughts on things, which as you know normally doesnt mesh with everyone in here ;) but that's ok too. Forums are great to "hear" a wide variety of thoughts.

BTW, I like that link you supplied and going to save it. This is my point, you see all that red? What happens to Tesla when all that red is cranking out EVs?
You do notice BMW in the green, their fossil fuel line is doing fine and the reason they are in the green is I have first hand knowledge there have been no supply issues for them here in the USA which is their biggest manufacturing plant in the world. They weren't as dependent on China or better said had a chip supply line that most other makers did not. There were some smaller issues but production didnt stop and the cars were sidelined, lets say, until a certain radio came into stock, small stuff. But their plant never shut down or slowed down.

With all my ranting .. I am not saying I am buying into Ford or GM, I do invest long term and fully invested but I am very interested in them and I never know if I am going to do something unless I am going to get rid of something else ...
 
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I still believe GM will make the transition to EVs WAY faster/better than Ford, Honda*, Stellantis and others. Best I can tell from my research, GM will have 3 US battery plants open before Ford opens their first in 2025. Before Stellantis too? Looks like a Canadian Stellantis plant in 2024. Their first US plant in 2025(?)

GM will announce the location of their 4th US battery plant within a few months. That could be open in 2025 too.

* There’s a reason Honda/Acura has fully bought into GM Ultium for their cars. They must know it’s a good plan. 🤷🏼‍♂️
 
I still believe GM will make the transition to EVs WAY faster/better than Ford, Honda*, Stellantis and others. Best I can tell from my research, GM will have 3 US battery plants open before Ford opens their first in 2025. Before Stellantis too? Looks like a Canadian Stellantis plant in 2024. Their first US plant in 2025(?)

GM will announce the location of their 4th US battery plant within a few months. That could be open in 2025 too.

* There’s a reason Honda/Acura has fully bought into GM Ultium for their cars. They must know it’s a good plan. 🤷🏼‍♂️
I believe your beliefs are correct. Per my very long post above this one (what else is new? *LOL*)
I was seriously looking at Ford as an investment but I have to say I like what GM is saying and have really become very interested in them. Over history GM has screwed up so many things but this very well maybe the time that Lucy doesnt get to pull the football away from Charlie Brown and Charlie Brown gets a field goal.
Anyway, I like them both GM/Ford but I have started to like GM prospects A LOT. They are also working on a platform with Honda to come out in 2027. GM seems to have a lot going on but I have been watching GM for gosh almost the last 40 years and still waiting for them to kick the football!!! I think maybe this may be that time, right?

Ok, with all that said = I am concerned about EVs at some point being over saturated in the market place. But we are nowhere close to that and so far down the road to try to see.
 
GM and Ford will do better only when their management gets smarter. Ford's CEO seems to be on the track of reengineering the company; GM seems to think they are kings...
I wish them well. And hope they improve the return to their shareholders.
 
I've been car shopping lately. The huge Stuart, FL Ford dealer had no more than 8 new vehicles in stock, all of em were undesirable work vehicles. NO F150's, No Mustangs, No Rangers, No Mavericks, No Broncos. And NONE coming. They are getting 3-4 cars per month.

The production numbers shown on that link must be worldwide, because Ford ain't moving many of them to US dealerships.

Other local Ford dealerships are exactly the same. No stock, few arrivals per month.

What I see/hear and the quoted production numbers on that link do not match.
 
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I was an early EV adopter. Purchased a Chevy Volt in 2014 and the wife has been driving it ever since. It was her favorite car ever... until one day when it wouldn't power up. For 60,500 miles, It had been 100% reliable only going for an oil change every other year and one software upgrade. But... it was dead in the garage. The problem was a failed module that lives inside the battery case, so the battery had to come out to repair. $4000.00. The other problem is the battery itself. Our battery is still in good shape... but visiting the Volt forum I see that there are a lot of batteries that are failing due to age. There are no new batteries, so the option is a used (or rebuilt $7500+) battery with a questionable lifespan or scrap the car. This will be the fate of all EV's.

It's time to send the Volt packing (while it is still operating). We are not looking at EV's or hybrids.
 
I used to use two cycle weed whackers and leaf blowers. Always a pain to keep maintained and work with. I went with cheap lithium battery replacements and its made that part of yard work much more pleasurable. I just keep and extra battery with me for when the one in use is exhausted. I can't do that with an electric car. The time to recharge is the biggest negative to the electric vehicle.

And I'm not sure that issue can ever be overcome. If I could get a 100% charge in the same time it takes to fill a tank with gasoline then we'd be talking. Until then for long distance driving, it won't work.
 
I was an early EV adopter. Purchased a Chevy Volt in 2014 and the wife has been driving it ever since. It was her favorite car ever... until one day when it wouldn't power up. For 60,500 miles, It had been 100% reliable only going for an oil change every other year and one software upgrade. But... it was dead in the garage. The problem was a failed module that lives inside the battery case, so the battery had to come out to repair. $4000.00. The other problem is the battery itself. Our battery is still in good shape... but visiting the Volt forum I see that there are a lot of batteries that are failing due to age. There are no new batteries, so the option is a used (or rebuilt $7500+) battery with a questionable lifespan or scrap the car. This will be the fate of all EV's.

It's time to send the Volt packing (while it is still operating). We are not looking at EV's or hybrids.
The Volt booted up when turned on? The 12 volt battery starts the car electronics and the car is dead without it. Not saying you don’t know that but dead in the garage means look at the 12 v battery first.
 
EV have motors, differential, drive shafts, and transmissions, not cheap to make either, heavy duty requirements. But no gas tank and all the extras gas needs. But EV needs a big battery. It seems like about equal in complexity. But the EV requires no emissions testing. Owners for the most part, past suffering tolerant early adopters, want to get in and go and think about anything else except car technology.
I think, in the long run, we may have a different way of doing EV than today. If you make battery "lease" the same cost as gas and you can swap batteries on the go, you can buy a cheaper car, sign up for a lease plan or swap them as you go in a "gas station", pay "rent" on it and the energy used, and if that cost "about the same" as your gas bill alternative, the car can be cheaper.

The biggest "waste" on EV is a battery sitting around doing nothing, depreciating the build cost and not used to transport people around wearing out the cells by the miles but by the years.

If you have a way to charge and use reliably, and convince the world to switch to swapping, and have the battery charged and drained all the time, it is a good way to reduce the cost of a vehicle.

However, most cars can be build pretty cheap these days if you are buying the affordable models. Most people are not in it to save money but to "enjoy themselves", as you can see with all the SUVs and crew cab purchases.
 
Not only are EV drivetrains less complex but they are more modular at subassembly level than ICE. We already see that batteries are being replaced as entire assemblies, same applies to the motor, gearbox, on-board charger and inverter, the only other essential components. These are literally bolt in / plug in parts and DIY is entirely possible.
Repair or recycling of those subassemblies will be carried out by specialists, not by your dealer's service department, just like engine rebuilding has been for decades.

The "issues" were only serious in that they were dramatic when a failure occurred. That should not distract from the root cause, a simple manufacturing mistake by LG, hopefully never repeated. The biggest hurdle was for GM, Hyundai and LG to actually accept that this would cost them an arm and a leg to fix properly. Both tried software fixes first, which helped but were not 100% effective.

Sure, about 1200 full-charge-equivalent cycles down to 80% of the original capacity, which, when multiplied by the EVs range leaves you with a fairly long life.
This is the teething problem in most new tech. One day when they standardized batteries in large volume production (Volt and Bolt are not, nor are Model 3 "yet", we are talking about F150, Corolla, Civic, Camry, Accord volume), they will have replacement and 3rd party rebuild.
 
... I just keep and extra battery with me for when the one in use is exhausted. I can't do that with an electric car. The time to recharge is the biggest negative to the electric vehicle.

And I'm not sure that issue can ever be overcome. If I could get a 100% charge in the same time it takes to fill a tank with gasoline then we'd be talking. Until then for long distance driving, it won't work.
The first thing on my mind before buying an EV over 3 years ago was "range". Now that I'm well accustomed to ownership it's the last thing on my mind, very much like how using battery powered tools surprised you in ways you didn't expect.
I even found the ritual of charging can be fun. But in the early days with public chargers I quickly found it was a race to plug in and run away before people passing by wandered over to ask questions.
 
The Volt booted up when turned on? The 12 volt battery starts the car electronics and the car is dead without it. Not saying you don’t know that but dead in the garage means look at the 12 v battery first.
If it was only that simple. The 12 Volt battery was fine. The error was P0C78. It was DRT in the garage (dead right there). Swapping the traction battery with a used one from a salvage yard fixed it.

My advice? Do not own an EV or hybrid without a factory warranty.
 
If it was only that simple. The 12 Volt battery was fine. The error was P0C78. It was DRT in the garage (dead right there). Swapping the traction battery with a used one from a salvage yard fixed it.

My advice? Do not own an EV or hybrid without a factory warranty.
I asked because your post here said it didn’t power up. I think this was your more complete explanation where you say it did. When I searched the code this came up. So the answer is yes it did boot up, so 12 v is operating ok.
Maybe power up also can mean the car is ready to drive, but I would say normally it means the car turns on.

 
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The laws of physics are pretty well vetted. I'm gonna say it's correct.

May I get a refresher on what we are talking about, please. Physics aside, they now have to be made into. A product. That people will buy, not have foisted.. i can't.. okay, again, please tell me what we are talking about, I'll pause.
 
If it was only that simple. The 12 Volt battery was fine. The error was P0C78. It was DRT in the garage (dead right there). Swapping the traction battery with a used one from a salvage yard fixed it.

My advice? Do not own an EV or hybrid without a factory warranty.

People say the same of ICE vehicles..

The sentiment I am mostly gathering is that EV technology is "in its infancy" and will eventually get better the way computers did etc etc, sort of like Moore's law....

Now, while clearly there are some EV enthusiasts on this forum, and that is fine.. seems more like a "toy" at this point. And that's fine too.

I don't exactly feel like being described paragraphs of why EVs are good until maybe I'm in a position to go out and buy an e-tron (E-tron? A car that actually looks good to me, not goofy like Goofy or Snoopy the character of a Tesla SUV. Although I do like Musk as a CEO etc and entrepreneur. Great individual. The Real Life Tony Stark.) so i don't generally comment much, except to say.. the electricity has to come from somewhere. Maybe I work at the coal plant, to help power that grid, even across state lines. Maybe not. But it's fine.

Early adopters, have fun!
 
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