Interesting GM/Ford Story on CNBC

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alarmguy

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In a few posts, because of past things I have read on EVs and by no means am I an expert but just using common sense I have mentioned how much less complex EVs are. I mean, they are battery operated electric motor cars. Much like our kids (or adults) remote controlled cars. I can even see a day, where motors will be mass manufactured by companies like Whirlpool, Samsung, LG and maybe even swappable or have optional motors. I mean, its just a motor and battery in its simplest form, like the vehicles they just started selling in China for almost nothing.

Anyway, there was a reference of the simplicity compared to fossil fuel burning cars by Fords CEO that is going to make things cheaper and faster to get up and running. This may bring EVs to mainstream America in the next 5 years or so, to me, right now, most anyone who owns one is in the top 10% wage earners in the USA that can afford to have an expensive second car sitting around when not in use.
Good read ...

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/22/behind-gm-fords-new-ev-strategy-is-old-time-financing-cash.html?__source=taboola|workday|cnbc|Desktop|Behind+GM,+Ford’s+Aggressive+New+Electric+Vehicle+Strategy+Is+Old-Time+Financing:+Cash&tblci=GiCEQDLyTJKSNYbi9txTqz8RfZhPH9B902o2Al4rrF7NqiC330YoguHUuq6E8ptH#tblciGiCEQDLyTJKSNYbi9txTqz8RfZhPH9B902o2Al4rrF7NqiC330YoguHUuq6E8ptH&recirc=taboolaexternal
 
Electric cars much less complex? I wouldn't say that myself. Besides there are many people having extra cars that financially shouldn't own a base model Corolla. While not being pro nor against EVs we certainly being herded like sheep by the media.
 
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wpod said:
Electric cars much less complex? I wouldn't say that myself. Besides there are many people having extra cars that financially shouldn't own a base model Corolla. While not being pro nor against EVs we certainly being herded like sheep by the media.
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It’s an electric motor with a battery and no transmission, no emission control systems and related equipment. The CEO of one of the oldest automobile companies in the world has made a statement in that article = less complex.
This also equals cheaper to build and higher profits.
 
This may be so. But don’t forget the complexity of batteries themselves, like the serious issues with the LG batteries in the Chevy Bolt. Even if they aren’t subject to sudden failure, every battery has a finite number of charge/discharge tolerate. Maybe component recycling will ameliorate the cost but right now this certainly isn’t a cheap proposition.
 
Danh said:
This may be so. But don’t forget the complexity of batteries themselves, like the serious issues with the LG batteries in the Chevy Bolt. Even if they aren’t subject to sudden failure, every battery has a finite number of charge/discharge tolerate. Maybe component recycling will ameliorate the cost but right now this certainly isn’t a cheap proposition.
Click to expand...
Agree on the batteries keeping in mind we are in our infancy perfecting them and moving forward there will always be a new design that may have an issue. Lets not forget for all the batteries out there, there are very few issues. The rest of the drivetrain is an electric motor and drive shafts.
Not needing a transmission and fuel burning engine makes this a cash cow for EV makers.

Heck, like the GM bolt, GM doesn't even make the battery and I honestly believe in the future automakers will be buying electric motors from outside sources as well. *LOL* It really is like your kids remote controlled truck, plane or drone! Parts will be coming from the best, lowest cost producers in a decade.

Some will have defects and get replaced at no cost to the owners and in GM Bolt case, no cost to GM.
LG, the maker of the batteries in the GM Bolt paid GM 2 BILLION dollars to replace the defective Bolt batteries at no cost to the owners.

The batteries so far seem to be proving themselves of lasting well over 100,000 miles. Its still a wealthy persons toy by the time its cost effective and practical for the general population. Production simplicity in EVs will be a boon to car makers compared to gasoline.
 
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EV have motors, differential, drive shafts, and transmissions, not cheap to make either, heavy duty requirements. But no gas tank and all the extras gas needs. But EV needs a big battery. It seems like about equal in complexity. But the EV requires no emissions testing. Owners for the most part, past suffering tolerant early adopters, want to get in and go and think about anything else except car technology.
 
wpod said:
Electric cars much less complex? I wouldn't say that myself. Besides there are many people having extra cars that financially shouldn't own a base model Corolla. While not being pro nor against EVs we certainly being herded like sheep by the media.
Click to expand...
Electric cars have 90% fewer moving parts. Yes-these cars are going to be bricked where you can't get in to the "computer brains" so people don't blow themselves up-where you are looking at 400 or 800 volts to charge these things. The electrics are coming...and when they do and all the associated infrastructure is put in they will better than their ICE counterparts have ever been.
 
I'm curious about the new Dodge truck that has a small means of charging its batteries.
 
Silver said:
The folks that don't see what such an article is saying will never see it. 🐒 🍭
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OK, I'll bite. What is the article saying? Just curious...
I can tell you one of the things I caught was GM teaming up with Tekion. I worked with the Tekion CEO when he was the Tesla CIO.
Manufacturing software, if you are interested.
 
P. Edward KnickKnack said:
EV have motors, differential, drive shafts, and transmissions, not cheap to make either, heavy duty requirements. But no gas tank and all the extras gas needs. But EV needs a big battery. It seems like about equal in complexity. But the EV requires no emissions testing. Owners for the most part, past suffering tolerant early adopters, want to get in and go and think about anything else except car technology.
Click to expand...
The newest versions of the Aptera have hub motors, so not much drivetrain left there! Seems like a lot of un-sprung weight though, but I don't have the specs. Lots of people are still happy driving solid axles around so un-sprung weight doesn't seem to be a deal killer.

I guess electric also can be scaled down or up easier, if you go light enough the car starts to shed whole systems like liquid cooling the motors, speed controllers, perhaps even the batteries. A small gas car still has almost all the drivetrain complexity, and peripheral systems, of a large vehicle as it needs to meet the same EPA standards.

The Aptera is only 1800-2000lbs with very little drag so it can get away without a cooling system for its motors and speed controller, probably could have its battery distributed to not need liquid cooling for it either. Also it can actually charge its self significantly with onboard solar panels because of its efficiency, where a kwh can propel it 60-80 miles.
 
alarmguy said:
Agree on the batteries keeping in mind we are in our infancy perfecting them and moving forward there will always be a new design that may have an issue. Lets not forget for all the batteries out there, there are very few issues. The rest of the drivetrain is an electric motor and drive shafts.
Not needing a transmission and fuel burning engine makes this a cash cow for EV makers.

Heck, like the GM bolt, GM doesn't even make the battery and I honestly believe in the future automakers will be buying electric motors from outside sources as well. *LOL* It really is like your kids remote controlled truck, plane or drone! Parts will be coming from the best, lowest cost producers in a decade.

Some will have defects and get replaced at no cost to the owners and in GM Bolt case, no cost to GM.
LG, the maker of the batteries in the GM Bolt paid GM 2 BILLION dollars to replace the defective Bolt batteries at no cost to the owners.

The batteries so far seem to be proving themselves of lasting well over 100,000 miles. Its still a wealthy persons toy by the time its cost effective and practical for the general population. Production simplicity in EVs will be a boon to car makers compared to gasoline.
Click to expand...

All true, but ultimately there will be a new vehicle warranty that covers the vehicle, including batteries. If the warranty on the battery pack is 5/60 or 10/100 it will be the same as it is today: good luck getting coverage outside the warranty period, especially if you’re not the original owner. Maybe widespread failures or safety hazards will be a different issue, but the run-of-the-mill failure? In other words, pretty much like today’s conventional powertrain except with a potentially bigger price tag and no DIY option.
 
IndyIan said:
The newest versions of the Aptera have hub motors, so not much drivetrain left there! Seems like a lot of un-sprung weight though, but I don't have the specs. Lots of people are still happy driving solid axles around so un-sprung weight doesn't seem to be a deal killer.

I guess electric also can be scaled down or up easier, if you go light enough the car starts to shed whole systems like liquid cooling the motors, speed controllers, perhaps even the batteries. A small gas car still has almost all the drivetrain complexity, and peripheral systems, of a large vehicle as it needs to meet the same EPA standards.

The Aptera is only 1800-2000lbs with very little drag so it can get away without a cooling system for its motors and speed controller, probably could have its battery distributed to not need liquid cooling for it either. Also it can actually charge its self significantly with onboard solar panels because of its efficiency, where a kwh can propel it 60-80 miles.
Click to expand...
I though someone would bring that up. It was done that way a very long time like 1840. The story is the Galvani was displayed, made a run, then never returned. The possible story is steam advocates destroyed it. So nothing ever changes in regards to the human condition and their desire to have their way win. Then the threat was steam power would be displaced by electric.
1650912635244.jpeg
 
Danh said:
All true, but ultimately there will be a new vehicle warranty that covers the vehicle, including batteries. If the warranty on the battery pack is 5/60 or 10/100 it will be the same as it is today: good luck getting coverage outside the warranty period, especially if you’re not the original owner. Maybe widespread failures or safety hazards will be a different issue, but the run-of-the-mill failure? In other words, pretty much like today’s conventional powertrain except with a potentially bigger price tag and no DIY option.
Click to expand...
Hence the creation of disposable cars... possibly
 
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