That is a tragic one. When you read the aftermath, the CVR dialog, and the history of the flight crew, it's mind boggling that they had those 3 clowns in the cockpit.
Infamous aircraft accidents
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That is a tragic one. When you read the aftermath, the CVR dialog, and the history of the flight crew, it's mind boggling that they had those 3 clowns in the cockpit.
There's an big one from near where I am. When people around here are asked, even ones who may have been adults at the time, by far most aren't even aware of the crash. Yet if you mention American flight 191 in 1979 virtually everyone has heard of it.
It was TWA flight 529, September 1st 1961. All passengers and crew perished, in total 78 lost lives.
I also wonder if this was another blow to Howard Hughes' mental state since both TWA and the Lockheed Consellation were both big, personal projects of his. And from what I have found, the last known picture of Howard Hughes was from sometime in 1962 at a Grand Prix race. So roughly a year or less from the time of the crash. Just a theory but interesting nonetheless.
en.wikipedia.org
It was TWA flight 529, September 1st 1961. All passengers and crew perished, in total 78 lost lives.
I also wonder if this was another blow to Howard Hughes' mental state since both TWA and the Lockheed Consellation were both big, personal projects of his. And from what I have found, the last known picture of Howard Hughes was from sometime in 1962 at a Grand Prix race. So roughly a year or less from the time of the crash. Just a theory but interesting nonetheless.
TWA Flight 529 - Wikipedia
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I find stuff like this fascinating not the fact they crashed but the investigations and stuff. I believe that TWA800 was caused by the center tank not by a missle they would have known if it was a missle. On a website I am a part of for aviation pictures someone has the last known photo of the plane involved which I think is really cool and a cool piece of history. One that no one listed was UPS1354 that crashed in Birmingham on approach and the pilots couldn’t get the normal runway and failed to set the computer for the other runway due to fatigue and stuff. I have a picture of that plane at my airport somewhere on my old camera. I also think American 191 could have been prevented had they kept the maintenance on the plane up. One day I want to visit the museum that the plane that landed in the Hudson River is in I have always wanted to see it in person. I personally am still wondering whatever happened to Malaysia 370 too many conspiracy theories out there to know which one is true.
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Howard Hughes in 1947 testing the counter rotating prop FX-11 prototype in LA. Some vibrations and he tried to make it to golf course to ditch. Almost made it. Pretty much destroyed numerous houses, but I don't think anyone on ground was killed or injured? Of course that likely where Hughes received the injuries that led to his painful causalgia later in life. It also caused much of his weird behavior later on. Of course counter rotating props became moot as jets became the norm.
The book Fate is the Hunter by Ernest K. Gann is worth a read if the topic interests you.I was watching Air Disasters and just in disbelief how some pilots handled the situation. Air Florida 90, United flight 173, and others. I’m glad my stepdad taught me lots about aviation and knows lots about the accidents. Do you folks recall the acccidents that happened over the decades? Thank heavens for crew resource management
Contra-rotating propjets are still relevant, however, as the Russians still regularly test our northwestern borders with the Tupolev TU-95 Bear long-range bomber/patrol aircraft. From what I've read, it's still the fastest widely-produced propeller aircraft ever made, with a top speed of almost 600 mph.
CVR Starts on page 100.
Just....wow. No words for that crew.
Agreed.
And yet, people think all airlines, and all pilots, are the same.
That you’re getting Chuck Yeager every time you board, when there are lots of inept pilots flying for some (not all, just some) airlines.
Hi.
This must count as one of the luckiest escapes of all time.
The Miracle of Flight 5390 - YouTube
This must count as one of the luckiest escapes of all time.
The Miracle of Flight 5390 - YouTube
Lucky?
Sure, because the FO was well-trained and handled the emergency well.
But...
When maintenance screws up, and they do, on occasion, it's the pilots left holding the bag.
Investigators found that when the windscreen was installed 27 hours before the flight, 84 of the bolts used were 0.026 inches (0.66 mm) too small in diameter (British Standards A211-8C vs A211-8D, which are #8-32 vs #10-32 by the Unified Thread Standard) and the remaining six were A211-7D, which is the correct diameter but 0.1 inches (2.5 mm) too short (0.7 inch vs. 0.8 inch).[4]:52 The previous windscreen had also been fitted using incorrect bolts, which were replaced by the shift maintenance manager on a like-for-like basis without reference to maintenance documentation, as the plane was due to depart shortly.[4]:38 The undersized bolts were unable to withstand the air pressure difference between the cabin and the outside atmosphere during flight.
You will always have your prime pilots like Sully and then you will always have mere stick
actuators that will screw up a routine flight like in a Max...
actuators that will screw up a routine flight like in a Max...
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Hi Astro.
Yes i would call him lucky.
His legs caught on the way out of the window, this stopped him plummeting to his death. The crew managed to grab him and stop him from being sucked out. He received no major injuries from being stuck on the outside of an airliner in a shirt and trousers. I class that as pretty lucky.
As a Pilot do you have much contact with the maintainance guys?
I have found this is true in every aspect of life... Maybe 1 in 10 is actually good in what they do and the rest is along for the ride. Those 1 in 10 are what makes the world go round. I'm not one of them, but at least I see the patterns emerging and sometimes can see who has value.
You make a great point.
I was looking at the flight overall, where there was good luck, bad luck, and skill.
But for that captain? Yes, indeed, very lucky to be alive with minor injuries.
I don’t interact with our maintenance guys as much as I would like. I can’t get to the hangar where they do the heavy work, though I would love to see what they do.
They come on board the airplane when we have a problem.
They’re generally courteous, thoughtful professionals, who are doing their very best to fix the airplane.
I’ve talked with them when they’re fixing an airplane at the gate, and even climbed up ladders to see what they’re working on. I know the systems, but I don’t know the components. When they are kind enough to indulge in showing me the components, it really helps me put together what’s going on. For example, a hydraulic reservoir. I know the capacity, characteristics, purpose, and that it has level, pressure, and temperature sensors, but I hadn’t actually seen one until last summer, when the crew was working on one on my airplane while it was at the gate.
I’m very careful to let them know that I support their work and decisions. I let them know that I will worry about the flight, departure time, passengers, whatever, once they’re OK with the repair. Some pilots pressure them to speed up the work.
That’s inappropriate at best, and unsafe if they allow it to influence them.
I’ve spent a lot of time talking with the maintenance guys and even turned a few wrenches on the F-14 when the guys in the power plants or hydraulics shop let me. I took a big interest. They were indulging me, I know, but I genuinely appreciate their work.
I always did my best to provide clear, detailed descriptions of “gripes” to help them troubleshoot problems. If I have a pilot write up on a 757, not just a “tray table loose seat 34B” kind of thing, but a real problem, I always stay on board the airplane to talk with the maintenance guy who is dispatched to that jet. I want to ensure a good start for his work by providing as much detail as I can.
I think it helps that I turn wrenches on my cars. Not as complex or exacting as aircraft maintenance, but a lifetime of dirty hands gives me an appreciation of what they do.
They come on board the airplane when we have a problem.
They’re generally courteous, thoughtful professionals, who are doing their very best to fix the airplane.
I’ve talked with them when they’re fixing an airplane at the gate, and even climbed up ladders to see what they’re working on. I know the systems, but I don’t know the components. When they are kind enough to indulge in showing me the components, it really helps me put together what’s going on. For example, a hydraulic reservoir. I know the capacity, characteristics, purpose, and that it has level, pressure, and temperature sensors, but I hadn’t actually seen one until last summer, when the crew was working on one on my airplane while it was at the gate.
I’m very careful to let them know that I support their work and decisions. I let them know that I will worry about the flight, departure time, passengers, whatever, once they’re OK with the repair. Some pilots pressure them to speed up the work.
That’s inappropriate at best, and unsafe if they allow it to influence them.
I’ve spent a lot of time talking with the maintenance guys and even turned a few wrenches on the F-14 when the guys in the power plants or hydraulics shop let me. I took a big interest. They were indulging me, I know, but I genuinely appreciate their work.
I always did my best to provide clear, detailed descriptions of “gripes” to help them troubleshoot problems. If I have a pilot write up on a 757, not just a “tray table loose seat 34B” kind of thing, but a real problem, I always stay on board the airplane to talk with the maintenance guy who is dispatched to that jet. I want to ensure a good start for his work by providing as much detail as I can.
I think it helps that I turn wrenches on my cars. Not as complex or exacting as aircraft maintenance, but a lifetime of dirty hands gives me an appreciation of what they do.
Hi Astro.
A great answer, as usual. Thank you.
I need to make my points clearer too. Having reread my original post i should have made it clear that it was the pilot that was lucky not the flight. As you say, that was down to a crew and first officer with training and cool heads.
A great answer, as usual. Thank you.
I need to make my points clearer too. Having reread my original post i should have made it clear that it was the pilot that was lucky not the flight. As you say, that was down to a crew and first officer with training and cool heads.
Okay, maybe a small amount of the above is true with cars and trucks past the 1970's. But in the old days of atmospheric vented fuel tanks flammable vapor was always present especially on an old chevy truck with the gas tank behind the seat in a closed hot cab on a hot summer day sitting in the sun, with a few gallons left in it, a situation creating lots of fuel vapor, in some cases fuel caps were missing and or just hanging loose allowing air into the mix. No they didn't have in the tank fuel pumps back then but they did have a fully exposed fuel gauge resistor that should have sparked and caused all kinds of flight 800's on the roads and farms in the day. Same goes for number 1 fuel burning trucks in the day with the same fuel resistors. Number 1 is basically kerosene so?
The air crash's I remember best are 1. The Alaska airline with the bad elevator jack screw, no excuse for that, an all round bad design, it should have been a recirculating ball screw, not what it was. 2 The ones where the planes go missing. 3 The Convair 440 that crashed on final to Toledo Express airport Sept 16, 2019, they were seconds to touch down and it nose dived? How come no final report on it, like the B-17 flown by Collins? 4 Sully's landing in the river. 5 The 3 engine plane that lost all control surface hydraulics. On air disasters it is crazy to see that such high time pilots can not fly a plane, like flying in a high speed stall into the ocean.
It would be nice to see the more updated technology in all aircraft, like synthetic vision, IR vision, radar vision all incorporated into a vision system that can see through any condition, see all air traffic and mountains and other land obstructions.
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High time does not equal high experience.
Sitting at cruise, with the AP on, crossing oceans may add thousands of hours, but it adds little experience and develops no skills.
Experience, and piloting skill, is developed in the hours you spend flying by hand, dealing with challenges and difficult conditions, and in examining how you fly.
Lots and lots of pilots in this world today have little hand flying experience, have never faced a challenge, and don't examine/debrief or actively learn on the job.
In many airlines, particularly those overseas who train ab initio, the autopilot is turned on at 400 feet on take off and off at 100 feet on landing. There is no intrinsic airplane feel developed or learned in 10,000 hours of that kind of "flying". You are a hands-off systems manager.
Not a pilot at all.
Sitting at cruise, with the AP on, crossing oceans may add thousands of hours, but it adds little experience and develops no skills.
Experience, and piloting skill, is developed in the hours you spend flying by hand, dealing with challenges and difficult conditions, and in examining how you fly.
Lots and lots of pilots in this world today have little hand flying experience, have never faced a challenge, and don't examine/debrief or actively learn on the job.
In many airlines, particularly those overseas who train ab initio, the autopilot is turned on at 400 feet on take off and off at 100 feet on landing. There is no intrinsic airplane feel developed or learned in 10,000 hours of that kind of "flying". You are a hands-off systems manager.
Not a pilot at all.
A few months ago I watched the series on the Sioux City Iowa crash of the DC-10 on YouTube called "Leaving the Earth" -- it is a great watch from the perspective of Denny Fitch who was a United Airlines Check Pilot who helped the crew bring this aircraft to a "landing" with zero hydraulic pressure. I would recommend watching this if you hadn't seen it. True airmanship.
Eastern Flight 401
This one always stuck out to me for gross incompetence. Took a ~4 month old Lockheed L1011 and every single crew member was so engrossed in the landing gear problem they slowly descended right into the Everglades.
This one always stuck out to me for gross incompetence. Took a ~4 month old Lockheed L1011 and every single crew member was so engrossed in the landing gear problem they slowly descended right into the Everglades.
