Income a family of four need to live comfortably by state in the U.S.

[Astro14]

You forgot the critical part where your children had parents who understood finance.

I can’t disagree. But the credit is not solely parental.

They are both thoughtful kids. They both made decisions that aligned their dreams with fiscal reality. They both worked extraordinarily hard to create the opportunities they have.

There is an unhealthy combination of parental sense of obligation, and child entitlement, that is pervasive in American society right now, and it leads to really poor decision making.

I talk about that, compare and contrast parents and students in the post I linked.

 

[IndyIan]

It is very relevant. Living somewhere is a choice. It's part of investing. The Valley is fueled by the best and brightest from around the world who come here for the opportunity.

Some maybe, my sisters biotech company she worked for in Toronto was bought up, by a big pharma company in S.F. She didn't want to go initially, and they started throwing enough money around to pay for a lot of a nice condo, and that finally got her there.
Does she really want to live there even now? It's nice enough not to be actively searching to leave anyways. They bought their house 2 years ago, not 15 or 20 years ago, so its a hefty mortgage to pay for, and its value isn't likely to outpace inflation by a huge margin. They pay the full rate property taxes too of course, and the school is OK, but no bussing.
IMO she could easily live back in many parts of Canada for half as much money and have a nicer house, much less of a commute, a better school (with a bus or within walking distance). Her husband loves S.F. though, and his job isn't quite a portable, so they will probably stay for quite a while yet.

 

[Chris142]

Im no where near the $277k needed to live here. not even making 25% of that lol. No wonder im broke

 

[CKN]

Not to pile on…. But I’d like to see the case for someone in Fishers, IN, or Springfield, MO, or even outside of the hustle and bustle in “hot” states like CO or UT.

I’m super happy for Jeff, but it’s a unique microclimate.

$700,000 is basically the price of admission (right now) for a single family detached home in Utah-in the greater Salt Lake Valley.. It use to be a third of that.

 

[CKN]

Im no where near the $277k needed to live here. not even making 25% of that lol. No wonder im broke

Apple valley was dirt cheap years ago-how long have you been there?

 

[JeffKeryk]

Wait a second, are you taking credit for the extraordinary luck you have had?

You moved there because you knew there would be incredible appreciation in real estate over the next three decades?

You knew that?

And everyone else who wants to be successful should have a crystal ball as clear as yours?

Able to see trends in real estate three decades in the future?

Yes and no. The appreciation was evident, not to the extent it achieved, but here's what was occured:
In about 1971, with orchards everywhere, young men who just came home from overseas wisely used their military benefit (esp discipline) and flooded the local JCs. Small companies sprung up started by Stanford, San Jose State, Santa Clara, Berkeley grads.

There was no denying what was going on; you couldn't miss it. In my case, it was clear that I'd I could program a computer I could make easy money. Very easy money, especially compared to manual labor. It was also evident that property values were soaring. Get on board!

And it was evident to me if I bought one of those drop dead gorgeous German sedans and dressed from Macy's I could not buy a house. After a few years, many of the pretty people started to get priced out, or so they thought...
But was I lucky? I would be the 1st to say so. Perhaps the luckiest part was my superiors who encouraged me to do more, who let me arrange my schedule to attend school (and paid for most of it) and threw me into problem situations to solve.

And I am forever grateful for the promise of quality low cost CA education. It saved my life and countless others.
Astro, you know far more about the greater America than I do or ever will. I often wonder where else in America someone who restarts his life at 33 has a chance like this? It boggles my mind. So yeah, I am lucky and do not take it for granted.

And now? I tell people that those who should consider coming here should do so if they really want to do something. Opportunity is not for those who need it; not for those who want it, opportunity is for those who work it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Not to pile on…. But I’d like to see the case for someone in Fishers, IN, or Springfield, MO, or even outside of the hustle and bustle in “hot” states like CO or UT.

I’m super happy for Jeff, but it’s a unique microclimate.

Spot on. And risky, no doubt. It is an investment that is not without cost.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Some maybe, my sisters biotech company she worked for in Toronto was bought up, by a big pharma company in S.F. She didn't want to go initially, and they started throwing enough money around to pay for a lot of a nice condo, and that finally got her there.
Does she really want to live there even now? It's nice enough not to be actively searching to leave anyways. They bought their house 2 years ago, not 15 or 20 years ago, so its a hefty mortgage to pay for, and its value isn't likely to outpace inflation by a huge margin. They pay the full rate property taxes too of course, and the school is OK, but no bussing.
IMO she could easily live back in many parts of Canada for half as much money and have a nicer house, much less of a commute, a better school (with a bus or within walking distance). Her husband loves S.F. though, and his job isn't quite a portable, so they will probably stay for quite a while yet.

Perhaps ask them how much equity they now have. I bet it is $100K over their initial investment; perhaps much more.
FYI, I am not a city boy, so SF ain't for me. Tell your sister we have another home in Petaluma, which used to be the chicken capital of the world. When my wife started San Jose State at 18, she and friends drove around here exploring and her question was, "Where's all the cows?"

 

[tbm5690]

My dad was an airline A&P mechanic working at Pan Am.
- 4 kids
- 2 cars
- 3/2/2 house
- High quality food and groceries
- Stay at home wife to raise the kids
- Emergency fund and cash in the bank
- Comfortable and conservative lifestyle

^^^ This can NOT be done in 2024 with the same family situation as above with only 1 paycheck. ^^^
4 kids are very, very expensive to raise.

The house was purchased new for $35K back in 1971….. today that house is worth around $750-800K.

It can be done, but not in a housing market like that and not with the type of lifestyle that most modern young families are willing to "settle" for.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

$700,000 is basically the price of admission (right now) for a single family detached home in Utah-in the greater Salt Lake Valley.. It use to be a third of that.

I have invested my whole adult life and the housing market has outpaced my ability to generate capital. I am under 40, paid off all debt years ago, and have well over half a million dollars in the bank, make well over six figures, flipped three houses, run a private business, made tens of thousands in other investments, and still feel deflated because I can barely afford a better house in CO than I bought in 2011. My total net worth puts me close to, if not beyond, a millionaire.

I guess all my hard work is just to maintain the same standard of living I had ten years ago. It is definitely not irresponsible lending policy, free money, rampant inflation, or underreported demographic expansion…

I just don’t get the tough cookies attitude a lot of older people have. It’s legit bad right now. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad when they were young, but it’s really bad right now.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I have invested my whole adult life and the housing market has outpaced my ability to generate capital. I am under 40, paid off all debt years ago, and have well over half a million dollars in the bank, make well over six figures, flipped three houses, run a private business, made tens of thousands in other investments, and still feel deflated because I can barely afford a better house in CO than I bought in 2011. My total net worth puts me close to, if not beyond, a millionaire.

I guess all my hard work is just to maintain the same standard of living I had ten years ago. It is definitely not irresponsible lending policy, free money, rampant inflation, or underreported demographic expansion…

I just don’t get the tough cookies attitude a lot of older people have. It’s legit bad right now. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad when they were young, but it’s really bad right now.

Congrats on your work ethic. I agree it's tough. While my home has appreciated far beyond my wildest expectations (aka luck) I believe people need a place to live. If you get up and go to work in the morning, try and improve your life, you should be able to own a little piece of property.
Just my 2 cents...

Sounds like you are on a good path.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I have invested my whole adult life and the housing market has outpaced my ability to generate capital. I am under 40, paid off all debt years ago, and have well over half a million dollars in the bank, make well over six figures, flipped three houses, run a private business, made tens of thousands in other investments, and still feel deflated because I can barely afford a better house in CO than I bought in 2011. My total net worth puts me close to, if not beyond, a millionaire.

I guess all my hard work is just to maintain the same standard of living I had ten years ago. It is definitely not irresponsible lending policy, free money, rampant inflation, or underreported demographic expansion…

I just don’t get the tough cookies attitude a lot of older people have. It’s legit bad right now. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad when they were young, but it’s really bad right now.

Your way ahead of your pier group. Most of them are likely still in the pretend mode with debt up to their ears. You should be proud of your success.

Your correct however IMHO in that its a lot about the luck of the draw - your age group, your location, your family situation. However luck follows those that work hard, so it may take a while but you will definitely see a reward in the end.

 

[CKN]

I have invested my whole adult life and the housing market has outpaced my ability to generate capital. I am under 40, paid off all debt years ago, and have well over half a million dollars in the bank, make well over six figures, flipped three houses, run a private business, made tens of thousands in other investments, and still feel deflated because I can barely afford a better house in CO than I bought in 2011. My total net worth puts me close to, if not beyond, a millionaire.

I guess all my hard work is just to maintain the same standard of living I had ten years ago. It is definitely not irresponsible lending policy, free money, rampant inflation, or underreported demographic expansion…

I just don’t get the tough cookies attitude a lot of older people have. It’s legit bad right now. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad when they were young, but it’s really bad right now.

I agree it's bad now.Many on this forum are totally out of touch-and think the younger generation just needs to get a "second job" to buy a house. It's naive, nonsensical, and outright stupid.

 

[SC Maintenance]

If your primary residence appreciates 300%, it means so did your neighbors. Unless your selling to leave the area, I really don't see how it benefits anyone. Your paying the inflated price for the next house, and 3X more for all the transactional fees that are based on sales price. I think we would all be better off if family homes just followed inflation like they used to for hundreds of years.

 

[JHZR2]

If your primary residence appreciates 300%, it means so did your neighbors. Unless your selling to leave the area, I really don't see how it benefits anyone. Your paying the inflated price for the next house, and 3X more for all the transactional fees that are based on sales price. I think we would all be better off if family homes just followed inflation like they used to for hundreds of years.

Precisely. You need to downsize severely to a low COL area to make it work. That can be done, but do you want to?

I have invested my whole adult life and the housing market has outpaced my ability to generate capital. I am under 40, paid off all debt years ago, and have well over half a million dollars in the bank, make well over six figures, flipped three houses, run a private business, made tens of thousands in other investments, and still feel deflated because I can barely afford a better house in CO than I bought in 2011. My total net worth puts me close to, if not beyond, a millionaire.

I guess all my hard work is just to maintain the same standard of living I had ten years ago. It is definitely not irresponsible lending policy, free money, rampant inflation, or underreported demographic expansion…

I just don’t get the tough cookies attitude a lot of older people have. It’s legit bad right now. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t bad when they were young, but it’s really bad right now.

There’s a middle point where you pay way more tax than lesser earners, probably way more per “necessary” dollar take-home than higher earners. Another $10k, to pay half in taxes, is almost not worth it, particularly on a per paycheck basis, other than that you’re increasing 401k and offsetting inflation. Unfortunately the middle earners pay a lot of the bills for the rich and the poor.

 

[CKN]

If your primary residence appreciates 300%, it means so did your neighbors. Unless your selling to leave the area, I really don't see how it benefits anyone. Your paying the inflated price for the next house, and 3X more for all the transactional fees that are based on sales price. I think we would all be better off if family homes just followed inflation like they used to for hundreds of years.

You can access that increased equity through home a equity line. Either a regular one or a reverse mortgage. The latter doesn't have to be paid back until later (after you are gone). That's an advantage. If you are barely getting by-the reverse mortgage is advantageous.

 

[JHZR2]

You can access that increased equity through home an equity line. Either a regular one or a reverse mortgage. The latter doesn't have to be paid back until later (after you are gone). That's an advantage. If you are barely getting by-the reverse mortgage is advantageous.

So a what… 8-9% loan instead of a 7%?!? Might as well get a low rate credit card at that point

 

[CKN]

So a what… 8-9% loan instead of a 7%?!? Might as well get a low rate credit card at that point

It is not so what. You are not going to get 7% to 8% on a credit card past the introductory rate. That's nonsensical.

 

[macarose]

The only thing that absolutely kicks my butt is health insurance.

$20k+ for a family of four. Everything else in our lives is comfortable and minimal cost.

 

[JHZR2]

It is not so what. You are not going to get 7% to 8% on a credit card past the introductory rate. That's nonsensical.

Pretty sure my Navy Federal platinum card is 11.24%.

Yet their HELOC starts at 8.75% on the site.

I thought 3% was effectively “free”, so…

Point is, neither is exactly a good deal…