How much a family of four needs in annual income to afford a single family home

[John105]

Amen Bro. Many of the 20 and 30-somethings I work with are crybabies. They moan and groan about how expensive and how tough life is, then they "door dash" a single Coke from McDonalds and pay $10 total before getting into their new $65,000 truck and drive home yackking on their new $1000 I-phone.

When I was their age I literally drove $500 cars (some without A/C) over two decades and ate a sandwich sack lunch I packed at home daily for 20+ years. Oh, and I had a 10.5% mortgage rate from the 80's. I never whined about it. I built up from it.

Told this before, working summers in HS, senior year was construction on new McMansions. I would work one hour and that was not enough for a Wendy’s meal. I told myself one day, I’m going to make enough to buy that meal. May sound like a joke, that didn’t happen until I drove for Dominos.

I do agree with anyone who believes there’s value in the struggle.

My job at Caddy Olds, I made minimum wage, while car washers got $0.75 more per hour, and college kids who drove limos got $6.

Ps first car B20 OHV Volvo was $700, $2100 in 2025 dollars. And I loved it. It was all mine. Rust and all.

Edit here’s the engine I wanted and never attained, missed it by one model year. That’s real life, not always getting what one wants! Having a pent up demand. M2 Comp, M3 base stick, and Tahoe High Country are such as I type…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volvo_Redblock_Engine

 

[JHZR2]

I'll use my buddy as an example, nobody here knows him. 43 y.o., earns over $200k, never purchased a home for whatever reason (maybe because they had below market rent for 12 years--$1,200 for a 3 bed / 2 bath condo in a nice condo development). Approved for $600k mortgage based on income, has $0 he can contribute for downpay, just as he had $0 5 years ago. He says he's good with never owning a home, wife cries about it, 3 kids. He told me he hopes that none of his kids decide to go to college (when I told him another buddy said $48k after financial aid for a mediocre school). I get we could all say poor him, his income is better than some. But at the same time, he's a real person with a real family and cannot afford a home.

I do feel that if he is sure he's never going to own a home? Then move across the street and see if any of the new condos are for rent. If so my guess is $4000 mo--buy that comfort. Otherwise do the opposite and save for the downpay which has to be six figures I guess.

One of my theories is unfortunately lifestyle fits the gross, not net, income. You know it's bonus time when my buddy has a new car. He got one 2024 and 2025. it's easier said than done to say, save that bonus 100%, and do it 4 years in a row, and there's your downpay, literally.

I suspect part of the problem is that at such income levels, folks get taxed and lose many opportunities to offset taxes, yet they don’t make enough real money to have real excess cash flow. Kids and kid activities also add up really fast too.

Lifestyle choices affect it sure, but he’s at about the worst positioning in terms of tax and expenses.

But what blows my mind is the lack of savings. Save a ton, pay hundreds to thousands a month on kid stuff, etc., etc. the money goes fast with any other activities in the mix. But that should typically be because a lot
Of other saving or investing is going on. Yet in the case you cite there is none.

Hopefully it’s locked up as a $MM in retirement!

 

[4WD]

Went to school with a guy who always had new/nice cars - and always the same vanity plates. He lives about 20 miles away - right on the highway - but have not seen him in many, many years … The cars have changed often - still nice - as in I do see two nice cars at a trailer house - one with that plate …
Choices …

 

[JHZR2]

Starter homes simply have not been made in a long time and the ones that are still around are 50+ years old and need an immense amount of work (that nobody has because full time work and kids) or simply not made because townhouse have been substituted for starter homes.

Then we get to the price of homes and loans where the lender wants you to make 3x your monthly salary of the house. For a basic 350k starter home here with no frills and thrills, that means a family needs to make at least $6k/month. Nearly impossible to ask for while paying for $2k rent on a 1-2 bdrm apartment, childcare, and associated bills.

The “I deserve” culture is pervasive. Of course, it wasn’t just because the newest generations are lousy. It was foisted on them by the prior generations who profited from it.

These stories are all politicized clickbait gen z sob stories. If you want to feel sorry for yourself (ie, your generation) then sure, life is tough. It takes work.

Family of four here. Doing quite well. $123k a year salary, three cars in the driveway with under 100k miles on each. Have a camper we take out every third weekend. Refinanced our ~2700 sq ft, 50 year old ranch home in 2021. Have $85k to go on the note and could pay it off tomorrow if I wanted. Invested NW of >$900k towards retirement. Wife brought financially nothing into the marriage. Two littles and a dog. Homeschooling. Savings rate >$35% and 10% to the church. Fired our financial advisors last year because they had nothing to offer.

No, our kitchen doesn't have stone countertops and the bathrooms are outdated, but everything works.

I’m using this response as an example, you can reply if you want, or not. I’m not trying to poke at your reply, but it’s all about choices. You didn’t state how much you pay in taxes, property taxes, what you don’t do for your kids, what you don’t have. And just how far in the boonies you live. And, when you actually bought. Many places have doubled in value in the last five years or so. You refinanced in 2021, which means you bought before, things were different. Sure there were times with 15% mortgages. Heck, my parents drove cars with no air conditioning. It doesn’t mean that folks didn’t sacrifice. But the asset cost structure in many places has not kept pace with incomes; appreciation has outpaced incomes, particularly all-in with all sorts of insurance, repair costs, etc. etc. factored in.

Not poking, just observing. That’s the issue with the article from OP. Even in one state there is massive difference. If you lived in Arlington county, or the nice part of Richmond, it’s a far difference from someplace hours from dc or any other job and money centers. Doesn’t mean folks can’t make a wage, funds just go further. And that’s part of the discussion. Funds go farther in some areas, but they’re also farther from population centers, transit hubs, etc. that matters for some, not for others.

 

[Pablo]

Warshington is redivkolus and the idiots think rent control will help

All from people who think they are more intelligent

 

[gfh77665]

That saddens me about WA, I love the state and it would have SO MUCH potential under the right leadership.

 

[John105]

That saddens me about WA, I love the state and it would have SO MUCH potential under the right leadership.

The three times I’ve been to WA? Loved it. One trip we stayed north of Seattle, and were making our way and staying next night closer to BC. A woman working at the hotel said she’s from there and missed it

 

[ls1mike]

That saddens me about WA, I love the state and it would have SO MUCH potential under the right leadership.

Well we agree on that. I love it here but...staying out of the politics

 

[scoot]

Well we agree on that. I love it here but...staying out of the politics

That is great , it would be a horrible existence living in a place one didn't like .

 

[CKN]

The three times I’ve been to WA? Loved it. One trip we stayed north of Seattle, and were making our way and staying next night closer to BC. A woman working at the hotel said she’s from there and missed it

I have walked all over both Portland and Seattle with no issues. Then again-I have traveled to 38 countries and have seen what real garbage holes look like....especially Cairo, Egypt.

 

[CKN]

The “I deserve” culture is pervasive. Of course, it wasn’t just because the newest generations are lousy. It was foisted on them by the prior generations who profited from it.


I’m using this response as an example, you can reply if you want, or not. I’m not trying to poke at your reply, but it’s all about choices. You didn’t state how much you pay in taxes, property taxes, what you don’t do for your kids, what you don’t have. And just how far in the boonies you live. And, when you actually bought. Many places have doubled in value in the last five years or so. You refinanced in 2021, which means you bought before, things were different. Sure there were times with 15% mortgages. Heck, my parents drove cars with no air conditioning. It doesn’t mean that folks didn’t sacrifice. But the asset cost structure in many places has not kept pace with incomes; appreciation has outpaced incomes, particularly all-in with all sorts of insurance, repair costs, etc. etc. factored in.

Not poking, just observing. That’s the issue with the article from OP. Even in one state there is massive difference. If you lived in Arlington county, or the nice part of Richmond, it’s a far difference from someplace hours from dc or any other job and money centers. Doesn’t mean folks can’t make a wage, funds just go further. And that’s part of the discussion. Funds go farther in some areas, but they’re also farther from population centers, transit hubs, etc. that matters for some, not for others.

It's atypical on here to get just "half of the story" on many topics/comments that get posted.

 

[tbm5690]

Lifestyle choices affect it sure, but he’s at about the worst positioning in terms of tax and expenses.

How do you figure? A higher salary always equates to more take-home, period. Tax brackets don't increase the rate on the entire salary just for entering a new bracket. Having the majority of your income taxed at the highest rate is a good problem to have. Are you saying that he would be better off making less?

 

[JHZR2]

How do you figure? A higher salary always equates to more take-home, period. Tax brackets don't increase the rate on the entire salary just for entering a new bracket. Having the majority of your income taxed at the highest rate is a good problem to have. Are you saying that he would be better off making less?

Where did I say anything to the contrary on more salary resulting in more take home? I didn’t. Certainly folks want to strive to earn more.

I understand marginal rates and effective rates.

At various income levels, credits at the state and federal level start to disappear. All of a sudden “you make too much money to qualify” is a thing. People that are in the middle are taxed and charged into oblivion.

Point is. You’re not rich when you’re making $200k, or even $300k+, especially in a high tax/HCOL area. You make enough to do just enough, and not enough to have real excesses. You can do less and have excess cash and savings. You can do more superfluous stuff and be paycheck to paycheck. But you’re making enough to “afford” more expensive stuff, but have none of the excesses of free cash flow that someone in a higher income level can have.

 

[Pablo]

Frankly I do have a problem with penalizing success

 

[tbm5690]

Where did I say anything to the contrary on more salary resulting in more take home? I didn’t. Certainly folks want to strive to earn more.

I understand marginal rates and effective rates.

At various income levels, credits at the state and federal level start to disappear. All of a sudden “you make too much money to qualify” is a thing. People that are in the middle are taxed and charged into oblivion.

Point is. You’re not rich when you’re making $200k, or even $300k+, especially in a high tax/HCOL area. You make enough to do just enough, and not enough to have real excesses. You can do less and have excess cash and savings. You can do more superfluous stuff and be paycheck to paycheck. But you’re making enough to “afford” more expensive stuff, but have none of the excesses of free cash flow that someone in a higher income level can have.

Which credits disappear between making, let's say, $100k and making $200k like the individual we are discussing? Maybe I'm unaware of all these federal and state tax credits that get cut making $200k plus.

 

[GON]

I don't concur the chart is not helpful or inaccurate. On a macro basis it is super helpful and tells a holistic story.

In August 2026 I will return from Asia to conus. I have recruiters occasionally reach out to me. This week four recruiters reached out to me for a position in Western North Dakota, Northern Michigan, Charleston South Carolina, and Weed California.

Whenever I get a call from a recruiter, first thing I do is look at single family home real estate prices, at the location the job opportunity is.

Most affordable, as the chart shows, was Michigan. Least affordable, Weed CA. Biggest surprise was the insanely high price to value in Western North Dakota. I would have considered the North Dakota position, but a modest but nice home in Western North Dakota is over a million dollars. I scratched North Dakota right off the consideration list

I think South Main Auto is a good example of a area where housing is affordable. Likely a percentage of his customers are on food stamps, keeping a car running is the goal, not a new car. No Ruth Chris for dinner for majority of South Main customers.

I suspect the people that live in the area of South Main Auto are wonderful people. Living very modestly, raising happy children. These people likely aren't doing a ski in ski out lodging Christmas week in Utah, maybe go to Disneyland once in their life if ever.

I suspect many of the children in South Main Auto like communities are raised well, and are not going to be entitled adults.

 

[scoot]

I don't concur the chart is not helpful or inaccurate. On a macro basis it is super helpful and tells a holistic story.

In August 2026 I will return from Asia to conus. I have recruiters occasionally reach out to me. This week four recruiters reached out to me for a position in Western North Dakota, Northern Michigan, Charleston South Carolina, and Weed California.

Whenever I get a call from a recruiter, first thing I do is look at single family home real estate prices, at the location the job opportunity is it.

Most affordable, as the chart shows, was Michigan. Least affordable, Weed CA. Biggest surprise was the insanely high price to value in Western North Dakota. I would have considered the North Dakota position, but a modest but nice home in Western North Dakota is over a million dollars. I scratched North Dakota right off the consideration list

I think North Main Auto is a good example of a area where housing is affordable. Likely a percentage of his customers are on food stamps, keeping a car running is the goal, not a new car. No Ruth Chris for dinner for majority of North Main customers.

I suspect the people that live in the area of North Main Auto are wonderful people. Living very modestly, raising happy children. These people likely aren't doing a ski in ski out lodging Christmas week in Utah, maybe go to Disneyland once in their life if ever. But I suspect many of the children in North Main Auto like communities are raised well, and are not going to be entitled adults.

Do you mean South Main ?

 

[GON]

Do you mean South Main ?

Yes, I edited the post the to reflect South Main Auto.

Appreciate the heads up on my error..... Stay young my friend....

 

[fdcg27]

Most of us want to live in a decent house in an area offering some cultural activities like theater and museums and libraries as well as a couple of airports with decent service and one stop connections to most of the world, all no more than an hour away.
We're now both now retired, but while still in the workforce, one would also need to be near opportunities for a decent paying position.
That limits the choice of places in which most people would want to live which in turn drives up the price of housing in those areas.
You can buy a decent older home quite cheaply out in the sticks, but if still working, where would you work and if retired, what would you do with all of your newfound leisure time?

 

[scoot]

Most of us want to live in a decent house in an area offering some cultural activities like theater and museums and libraries as well as a couple of airports with decent service and one stop connections to most of the world, all no more than an hour away.
We're now both now retired, but while still in the workforce, one would also need to be near opportunities for a decent paying position.
That limits the choice of places in which most people would want to live which in turn drives up the price of housing in those areas.
You can buy a decent older home quite cheaply out in the sticks, but if still working, where would you work and if retired, what would you do with all of your newfound leisure time?

Save snapping turtles crossing the roads . LoL . It's a slower pace of life that's for sure . No traffic jams , people don't flip you off for going 5 over the speed limit . Everyone isn't a stranger . I could go on and on how I enjoy being out of the rat race of the big city . I always had a 1 hour commute each way for 27 years . Retired at 54 . Some of the best sailing in the world 15 min. from my house in the sticks .