In Theory Why Is Amsoil ATF Better Than Honda Z-1

[DaddyBlogger]

Did a search here and on other forums trying to understand (in theory) why Amsoil's Universal ATF is better than the Honda Z-1 ATF. I have heard many positive statements about the Amosil ATF but was not able to gain a firm grasp on why it might be better than the Honda Z-1. Better cooling? Better dissolving of deposits? Better oxidation resistance?

Personal experiences have been great from what I can tell from switching from Z-1 over to Amsoil ATF and personal testimony is powerful BUT I am trying to understand the science as to why the Amsoil ATF may be better. I have a 2003 Honda Odyssey and everyone knows their AT are essentially lemons.

 

[pbm]

Better cooling? Better dissolving of deposits? Better oxidation resistance?

Yes Amsoil offers all three of those advantages over Z1 because its a full synthetic while Z1 is not. Redline D4 is also excellent for Hondas. Honda Z1 ATF is nothing special and either Amsoil or Redline would be a step up, IMO.

(Rather than saying 'better dissolving of deposits' I would say better prevention of deposits)

 

[buster]

Usually when Amsoil sets out to make an oil, they try to make it the best they can.

 

[Johnny]

Originally Posted By: pbm
Better cooling? Better dissolving of deposits? Better oxidation resistance?

Yes Amsoil offers all three of those advantages over Z1 because its a full synthetic while Z1 is not. Redline D4 is also excellent for Hondas. Honda Z1 ATF is nothing special and either Amsoil or Redline would be a step up, IMO.

(Rather than saying 'better dissolving of deposits' I would say better prevention of deposits)


I support this statement.

 

[Donald]

However from the reading I have done, if you have a Honda lemon transmission, you could change the Amsoil ATF every day and it would not add much life to the lemon.

But for non lemon Honda transmissions, Amsoil or Redline is a step up from the Honda Z-1, mainly because both are synthetics and have better additives.

 

[Mau]

I have one of those weak honda transmissions in my prelude (yes I drive an auto prelude!). It has 207K on it and it shifts smooth as long as I am not constantly stopping and going in the [censored] traffic!

I have always used Honda Z1 and it was fine, I decided to try Amsoil ATF my last drain and fill (only did it once so far) and the transmission is getting better, still not how I want it but I guess as long as I can continue driving until I can pick up my next car it's all good

I have 2 other hondas, I may try a different fluid in the Accord as it has a nasty 1st and 2nd shift, I wanna give Castrol import a try as it is one of the thickest out there.

In the RDX I may stick with Z1 or switch to Amsoil (I just hate not being able to buy it at the corner auto parts store!)

 

[Carzzz]

Originally Posted By: Mau
I have one of those weak honda transmissions in my prelude (yes I drive an auto prelude!). It has 207K on it and it shifts smooth as long as I am not constantly stopping and going in the [censored] traffic!


"Weak Honda Tranny" are most of the 4 speed/early 5 speed auto V6 applications

 

[Mau]

Originally Posted By: Carzzz
Originally Posted By: Mau
I have one of those weak honda transmissions in my prelude (yes I drive an auto prelude!). It has 207K on it and it shifts smooth as long as I am not constantly stopping and going in the [censored] traffic!


"Weak Honda Tranny" are most of the 4 speed/early 5 speed auto V6 applications


and ours was test bed for honda's tiptronic system ... google and you'll get results

 

[iluvhonda]

Quote:
and ours was test bed for honda's tiptronic system ... google and you'll get results


i would have to agree aswell from forum jumping over the years. i have a 99 prelude with MT and it has 214,xxx on it. nothing but honda mtf for me.. i would love to pick up a auto prelude but i would not because of their automatic transmissions. anyone have any disagreement to changing the trans oil on a older car to say every 6 - 9 months instead of a 2 year period i use to do?

 

[BBDartCA]

How does Amsoil make a transmission run cooler than another oil?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
How does Amsoil make a transmission run cooler than another oil?


I think that is not a correct statement to make, but more likely a synthetic fluid can withstand high temperature better than a dino fluid.

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: BBDartCA
How does Amsoil make a transmission run cooler than another oil?


I think that is not a correct statement to make, but more likely a synthetic fluid can withstand high temperature better than a dino fluid.


I'm not sure about that. Schaeffers has a graph at the bottom of this page showing that lower temps will give you longer life. And they actually say "Superior operating temperature reduction" as well as "By keeping operating temperatures low,All -Trans extends the life of your vehicle"

http://www.schaefferoil.com/204_transmission_fluid.html

 

[Dieselbob]

I'm sure Amsoil is better than than Z1. I'd like to put it in mine right now. But until it has Honda certification to cover my butt on the warranty, no dice.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
I'm sure Amsoil is better than than Z1. I'd like to put it in mine right now. But until it has Honda certification to cover my butt on the warranty, no dice.


That's why I'm waiting for the warranty to be up on my wife's 09 Honda Fit before filling with Amsoil. I'm dead sure it's better than Z1. To keep the warranty, we have to play Honda's game.

 

[SJohnson]

I'm not sure why you would have to use Honda cetified ATF. I thought that you didn't have to per the Manuson-Moss Warranty Act. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

In fact it states: Warrantors cannot require that only branded parts be used with the product in order to retain the warranty.
Maybe I'm wrong. Don't Vavoline Max Life and Castrol Multi-Import Vehicle ATF meet/exceed Honda specs?

 

[Gary Allan]

You bring up an often overlooked thing. Not all recommended products are licensed. It's only Amsoil that gets crucified for not having licensing and certs.

M1 ATF isn't licensed/approved for too much that I'm aware of.

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is formulated for use in most North American, European and Asian vehicles.

Approved for Allison C-4 applications
Exceeds JASO 1-A performance standard

Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF is also suitable for use in vehicles that specify the following fluid requirements:

Audi G 052 025-A2, G 052 162-A1
BMW LA2634
Esso LT 71141
ETL-7045E, ETL-8072B, N402
Ford* MERCON*, MERCON V, MERCON LV
All 2005 and earlier GM vehicles**
Honda ATF-Z1*
Hyundai SP-II, SP-III
Idemitsu K17
JWS 3309
Kia SP-II, SP-III
MAN 339F, V1, V2, Z1, Z2, Z3
Mazda ATF-III, ATF-MV
Mercedes-Benz 236.1, 236.2, 236.5, 236.6, 236.7, 236.9
Mitsubishi Diamond SP-II, SP-III
Nissan Matic-D, Matic-J, Matic-K
Subaru ATF
Toyota T-III, T-IV
Voith 55.6335.XX (G607, G1363),
Volvo 97340
ZF TE-ML 03D, 04D, 09, 14A, 14B, 16L, 17C


So if anyone uses M1 ..they're under the same snake oil marketing spell as one would be under with Amsoil

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Originally Posted By: Dieselbob
I'm sure Amsoil is better than than Z1. I'd like to put it in mine right now. But until it has Honda certification to cover my butt on the warranty, no dice.


That's why I'm waiting for the warranty to be up on my wife's 09 Honda Fit before filling with Amsoil. I'm dead sure it's better than Z1. To keep the warranty, we have to play Honda's game.

The Amsoil may be better, but ATF-Z1 is not expensive either. With drain and refills every 15k or annually, your transmission should last just as long as a transmission that was serviced with Amsoil at longer intervals. With ATF-Z1 costing only $5/qt, why bother with Amsoil?

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
With ATF-Z1 costing only $5/qt, why bother with Amsoil?


Because Z1 isn't worth $5 quart?

 

[Jasper8146]

My understanding is the Amsoil being synthetic would create less friction within the transmission and this is why it would operate at a lower temperature. Based on other posts, I also believe the Amsoil additive package may be more robust than the Z1, but that probably should be settled by careful laboratory analysis. I have essentially the same transmission as you in my 2003 Acura MDX and I have used the Amsoil with good results. I've had even better results with Redline D4 which I think offers better wear protection in general (being GL4 rated) and offers better flow at extremely low temperatures. The Amsoil is something like 98 at -40 whereas the Redline is only 52. Given the closeness of their viscosities at 40 and 100, the low temperature pumpability difference is really stunning I think, and another reason to go with Redline D4.

 

[Jim Allen]

To understand Z1, one must look at a Z1 VOA. It's a different animal because the Honda trannies are very different, essentially being hydraulically shifted manuals. Z1 uses magnesium instead of phosphorus, which is more common in conventional ATFs. Sulfur is also high in the Z1. The two tests I have of Z1 in my car show it sheared down from about 7 cSt to 5.5 cSt in about 20K miles. It also has high levels of zinc, something I don't see in many ATFs.