I'm confused about Thicker SM oils.

[Chris142]

Back to the ZDDP wars. 30wts are required to have 800ppm ZDDP but 40wt and up are not even if they SM rated? I spotted this and besides being a 20w50 it has plenty of ZDDP.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/havoline-20w50-sm-harley-davidson-3k-miles.110814/

I bought a case of the Chevron copy, I hope it's the same.

 

[Audi Junkie]

Could be.

 

[JHZR2]

interesting point... I guess it is this way:
-all domestics and Japanese cars are "spec" for 20 or 30wt oils... so the bulk of the cars fall into the meaty part of the curve.
-Any euro car (users of some 40 wt oils) seems to take its own specific oil spec, which may or may not include API SM. Regardless, the euro spec may include a ZDDP max value.
-"the rest" fall into the catch all basket... Probably somewhere there is a guideline to minimize ZDDP use, but it is not set in stone because some of the market needs it... therefore they allow the catch-all 40 wt oils (i.e. non euro-spec) to have higher ZDDP while also having some of the other benefits of API SM.

 

[Drew99GT]

Chris142 is back! Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

I've posted about this many times. API SM does not limit phosphorous in the GF-4 starburst fuel economy grades. 10w-40 and 20w-50 therefore, are not necessarily limited to 800 ppm phosphorus. However, most, if not all the oil companies still limit the non fuel economy grades in phosphorous just like they do the fuel economy grades. But Chevron/Havoline does not, and they show this on the data sheets. So Chevron/Havoline 10w-40 and 20w-50 are good for those concerned with ZDDP.

https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS30535632.PDF

https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS20366791.PDF

 

[Drew99GT]

Funny enough, I bought 2 cases of Chevron 10w-40 today to run in my Corolla. On sale for $1.99/quart at Checker/Orielly.

 

[Chris142]

Looks like I need to save the 20w50 for next summer and buy up some 10w40 for winter.

 

[72customdeluxe]

I don't know if this directly relates to your question, but I got a bottle of Valvoline vr1 20w-50 for top up oil. They claim it's got like 1200 or more ppm phosphorous and zinc. And yet it's also sm rating approved according tot the bottle. It says something like sj, sl, and sm approved.

 

[Chris142]

Well after looking at the specs Drew posted I decided that SAE30 was my best choice since it doesn't get below freezing here normally. I got a case of it today.

 

[noi8u]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Well after looking at the specs Drew posted I decided that SAE30 was my best choice since it doesn't get below freezing here normally. I got a case of it today.

I also decided SAE30 is the best, but the Amsoil ACD which has higher diesel standards and a dual rating of 10w30 without modifiers and is rated to 30 below.

 

[glen242]

Originally Posted By: 72customdeluxe
I don't know if this directly relates to your question, but I got a bottle of Valvoline vr1 20w-50 for top up oil. They claim it's got like 1200 or more ppm phosphorous and zinc. And yet it's also sm rating approved according tot the bottle. It says something like sj, sl, and sm approved.


But VR1 does not have the starburst label which seems to indicate reduced ZDDP. It does have 0.14/0.13 ZDDP.

Go to the Valvoline web site for specs.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Chris142 - Your comments are almost spot on!

In very simple terms this may help you:

Under API's SM specification the 0W-20, 0W-30, 5W-20, 5w30 and 10W-30 viscosities have minimum and maximum Phos. requirements

All other "SM" viscosities have only the minimum requirement. There are other specific requirements too but this is the area that confuses most people

I find ACEA's specifications much simpler to comprehend