Havoline 20W50 (SM) Harley Davidson, 3K miles

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Aug 4, 2004
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I ran an OCI of the new Havoline "Deposit Shield" 20W50 in my 1994 Low Rider (Harley Davidson), with of course the Evolution engine. I had been asked by some folks if I thought the new stuff would work as well as the old Havoline, and not being an expert at anything much more than my own opinion, I figured the only way to find out was to do a run of the new Havoline and see how it did. Here is the report... It sheared to a 40 weight. No fuel to explain the light viscosity... it just sheared. This engine has sheared every oil I've put into it, including a mix of two quarts 20W50 VR1 (Valvoline), and one quart straight 60 (sixty) weight VR1. You can see the old VR1 blend results here in the archives, or just look in the previous columns on this current report for the OCI which ran for 2751 miles, and that would be the VR1 OCI. The most recent UOA (first column to the right of current UOA) was from Chevron's Supreme SL 20W50. It's supposed to be the same as Havoline, but the moly numbers don't jive. It still worked well, however... I believe this Evolution engine may be more prone to shearing oil than the newer designs because of the cam gears. The newer designs use chains rather than gear drives, and they don't shear the oil so quickly. So I'm guessing it could be the gear gnashing that's thinning the oil. I actually ran this oil for 3039 miles, rather than 3003 miles. I forgot that my speedometer cable had broken in Kentucky one day and I was 36 miles from the Pikeville Harley Davidson shop, where I found a replacement cable and fixed it in the parking lot. Wear metals are still well under universal averages. The iron has bumped up a few points from the earlier UOA's, but it's still well under average, so I'm not concerned there. At 53,000 miles, the cam lobes are probably starting to wear a bit, which may explain the slightly higher iron numbers. I'm wondering if a heavier dose of zinc/phos would help here any... so maybe I'll try a blend of some sort for my next UOA. :) The engine has the Chevron Supreme in it again now. I've still got a small stash of that stuff that went for about a buck a quart. Bearings look great, which I'm thankful for. (low copper and lead)... The additive pack on the new Havoline isn't a lot different than the old. If you look at the two oldest UOA's on this report, they're both from Havoline 20W50 in the SL rating. We see some tweaks for the new Deposit Shield SM rated Havoline 20W50: more Calcium... more Sodium... less Boron... less Magnesium... 30 ppm of Potassium now (nearly none before)... a touch of Manganese... and Moly, Zinc, and Phosphorous are still about the same, and in good supply. The PF53 AC Delco filter I chose to use worked very well also, even getting accolades from Blackstone. They're around 4 bucks or so at AutoZone, and the blue color matches the pin striping on my bike. One thing seems readily apparent from all of these UOA's I've done, and that is that a 40 weight oil in these engines does seem more than capable of protecting the engine. I'm sure it must shear down fairly early in the UOA (I base this notion on what Sunruh has posted, showing that oils with a tendency to shear tend to do so pretty quickly)... but nonetheless these oils still protect well, even after shearing. There are several UOA's of synthetic oils here which did not shear in basically the same application, but they protected less well, as evidenced by the higher wear metal numbers. If given the choice as to which one I'd like to look better at the end of an oil change intervall--the oil--or the engine... I'll take the engine every time... ;\) Dan
 
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gears shear oil. iron is a bit higher, but who knows if the results are comparable from last time to this one since its blackstoned. the manganese value is interesting. i dont see a reason not to run this oil in your motor.
 
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 Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Bearings look great, which I'm thankful for. (low copper and lead)...
I'm not aware of any plain bearing in an EVO, so where would the copper and lead be coming from?
 
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Thanks for the report. It's good information for those of us with air-cooled motors that don't want to pay for synthetic (or Genuine HD) oil - and gives excellent alternatives. I have two S&S 96 cu.in. and a TC96 and have been using two parts Havoline 20W-50 and one part SAE 60 in the hot summer months with 2,500 OCIs. This worked well in my RKC TC88 until a dump truck flattened it with a mere 58,xxx miles on the odometer.... Probably ought to send in a sample, but you are doing such a fine job already.... :-) Thanks again.
 

fuel tanker man

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 Originally Posted By: G-MAN
 Originally Posted By: fuel tanker man
Bearings look great, which I'm thankful for. (low copper and lead)...
I'm not aware of any plain bearing in an EVO, so where would the copper and lead be coming from?
The cam bearings shed copper (so I'm told) if they're failing... based on the UA's, the copper would have to be coming from somewhere in these engines, presumably the cam bearings would be the source... or is it coming from another source(?)
 
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or it could be noise. i'd be willing to bet a voa on the oil would show some from blackstoned. and another sample from the same bottle would be DIFFERENT 3 weeks later. hmmmmmm, why do i know this. you are talking about the difference between 2ppm and 3ppm and 4ppm. while 100% increase is a lot percentage wise, ppm wise it is a zero.
 
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Manganese is a gasoline add and is at 5x the averages, and is a real departure from previous consistent samples of zero. To paraphrase Dyson, just because there's no fuel in the oil at the time of sampling, doesn't mean there didn't used to be. Doesn't seem to be hurting any. How's the condition of your plugs, air filter and PCV? You might want to look into conditions that could cause fuel dilute, just to rule it out.
 

fuel tanker man

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The carb is jetted rich, so it could get some fuel in the oil from time to time. That could contribute to the thinning of the oil. My air filter is stock, and in good shape. I'm running the Havoline again this OCI, but have put in 10 ounces of STP to see if it'll help the oil stay in grade. Maybe a bad choice, but I figured I'd try it. Will post a UOA in the next month or so, I would guess. Dan
 
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Originally Posted By: moosestang
Have you run the Valvoline 4 stroke? http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/motorcycle-atv-oil/13 I'm using it in my buell now. I might do a UOA if I can remember when I changed the oil last, lol! At only $4 a quart, it's a good deal compared to the synthetic alternatives.
I have used the Valvoline and I was not impressed. It foamed really bad and the VOA's I have seen it looks no more robust than a typical car oil. Youd be better off buying regular Valvoline 20w50 IMO. I tried it in 2 bikes and 2 - 4 wheelers one four wheeler the fan kept kicking on a lot more than normal, (aircooled with a fan on the oil cooler). Not sientific by any means just my 2 cents.
 
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Originally Posted By: heavyhitter
Originally Posted By: moosestang
Have you run the Valvoline 4 stroke? http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/motor-oil/motorcycle-atv-oil/13 I'm using it in my buell now. I might do a UOA if I can remember when I changed the oil last, lol! At only $4 a quart, it's a good deal compared to the synthetic alternatives.
I have used the Valvoline and I was not impressed. It foamed really bad and the VOA's I have seen it looks no more robust than a typical car oil. Youd be better off buying regular Valvoline 20w50 IMO. I tried it in 2 bikes and 2 - 4 wheelers one four wheeler the fan kept kicking on a lot more than normal, (aircooled with a fan on the oil cooler). Not sientific by any means just my 2 cents.
Well that is disappointing. Guess I'll go back to VR1 if the 4 stroke isn't any better. I might try Mobil 1 v-twin again, but it made my engine noisy.
 
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Nice UOA. I don't think your Havoline DS sheared too much. I haven't looked at the 20w-50's closely, but all of the 5w- & 10w- Havoline DS grades start out on the thin side; so does the newer Chevron Supreme that has the same base mix, but a slightly different add-pack. Looking at your UOA's, I see that the Hav. DS has more sodium than Chev. Supr. I see a similar use of sodium in Mobil 5000 that Exxon Supreme doesn't have, and I am undecided if I like the added sodium that is used as a detergent. Also, I am undecided if a sodium enriched oil is a good oil to use when storing an engine for the winter months.
 
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Fuel Tanker Man: The 20W-50's certainly do well in the area of engine wear and the eventual shearing to a 40wt does not present a problem in a 4-cylinder in-line UJM. I haven't forgotten that interesting mix of 2 parts Valvoline VR1 20W-50 and 1 part Valvoline Synpower 20W-50 that you reported on in 2008. sunruh: After reading every UOA and remarks posted going back several years I really get your point regarding engine wear being the key determinant that should justify the cost of oil. I must admit it has been revealing and instructive. The recently posted results with 8,000 mile OCI for RickA's 1999 ST1100 shows how reasonably priced readily available oils can achieve extremely low wear results. Thank you, Gentlemen.
 
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