Red Line Oil Viscosity Index Improvers

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Was reading in another thread that some of Red Line's oils are have more VII (viscosity index improvers)(5w30) than others (10w30) - is this information posted publicly anywhere? Especially if things change, I'd like to keep my eye on it. I don't think these are referring to the base oil? FWIW, learned from Red Line most of their oils have a TBN of 10, and recommended intervals 10k miles to 18k miles Also anecdotes like, the 5w30 flows like a 40wt oil, etc. do the 20wts flow like 30wts? i.e., Rav4 requires 5w30, which Toyota revised to 5w20 - however, some noted it runs better on 5w30 - will Red Line's 5w20 work better here, where it may be more in between? Or can I rely purely on it's viscosity numbers to understand flow - doesn't seem that way, their viscosities seem to line up with most others, or run slightly thicker at most. also anecdotally noted that their 5w30 is on whole all around better than their 10w30 - why? and why does the 10w30 exist then (other reason besides hitting that popular weight)? is the same true for their 5w40, vs their 0w40 or 10w40?
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,286
Location
Michigan
Don't know where you would have read that. Redline is majority Group V. There is not officially a Group VI, but it has been discussed from time to time. Never heard anything about Group VII. Maybe you are misinterpreting the VII abbreviation for Viscosity Index Improver and VI for Viscosity Index as base oil group numbers. Redline's oils typically have High Temperature High Shear viscosities that are one grade above their SAE KV100 grade. For example, the 5w20 has HTHS of 3.0, which is above the minimum 30-grade HTHS of 2.9. This means that RL 5w20 will form similar oil film thickness to that of lightweight 30-grade oils.
 
Last edited:

kyoo

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Don't know where you would have read that. Redline is majority Group V. There is not officially a Group VI, but it has been discussed from time to time. Never heard anything about Group VII. Maybe you are misinterpreting the VII abbreviation for Viscosity Index Improver and VI for Viscosity Index as base oil group numbers.
I don't think it's the oil group. You are right - it refers to viscosity index improvers. Where can I get this information? i.e., ash content, vii, etc.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Forget about RL's 10W-30, it's HTHS is no higher than the already VII free 5W-30; all your would be getting from this obsolete low VI grade is a thicker oil at start-up which is exactly what you don't want.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,286
Location
Michigan
Originally Posted By: kyoo
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Don't know where you would have read that. Redline is majority Group V. There is not officially a Group VI, but it has been discussed from time to time. Never heard anything about Group VII. Maybe you are misinterpreting the VII abbreviation for Viscosity Index Improver and VI for Viscosity Index as base oil group numbers.
I don't think it's the oil group. You are right - it refers to viscosity index improvers. Where can I get this information? i.e., ash content, vii, etc.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Forget about RL's 10W-30, it's HTHS is no higher than the already VII free 5W-30; all your would be getting from this obsolete low VI grade is a thicker oil at start-up which is exactly what you don't want.
Yes, Caterham was talking about Viscosity Index Improvers in his post. I basically agree with him that RL 10w30 is a redundant oil. It actually has lower HTHS than the 5w30, and doesn't appear to have any advantage in shear stability.
 

kyoo

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Originally Posted By: kyoo
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Don't know where you would have read that. Redline is majority Group V. There is not officially a Group VI, but it has been discussed from time to time. Never heard anything about Group VII. Maybe you are misinterpreting the VII abbreviation for Viscosity Index Improver and VI for Viscosity Index as base oil group numbers.
I don't think it's the oil group. You are right - it refers to viscosity index improvers. Where can I get this information? i.e., ash content, vii, etc.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Forget about RL's 10W-30, it's HTHS is no higher than the already VII free 5W-30; all your would be getting from this obsolete low VI grade is a thicker oil at start-up which is exactly what you don't want.
Yes, Caterham was talking about Viscosity Index Improvers in his post. I basically agree with him that RL 10w30 is a redundant oil. It actually has lower HTHS than the 5w30, and doesn't appear to have any advantage in shear stability.
Thank you - that's what I was finding as I was searching just now - aside from the viscosity numbers, how do we find info on things like VII in the oil, ash content, etc.? Also, I think we could flip it around and say maybe Red Line's 10w30 has more VII, as it flows lighter than Red Line's 5w30?
 
Last edited:

kyoo

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
There is a thread floating around which suggests RL has moved into using primarily PAO base stocks.
in other words, group iv vs group v? the actual oil grouping is slightly off topic but that is my mistake/misunderstanding of what "VII" meant - in any case though, how do you find that information out? and, how will we know if they suddenly change their formulas?
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
35,657
Location
NJ
I’m not sure RL’s formulation approach has really changed. It was always “assumed” RL was majority POE, however, it was my understanding that all over their oils have always contained a significant amount of PAO. What made RL stand out is they use far greater %’s of POE than any other brand. Most contain little to no VII’s. I’m not a fan of their street oils as they use too much calcium and a form of moly that I’m not so sure is good in turbo deposit resistance. Where they seem to excel is the racing oil niche market and MC oils.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
8,089
Location
down in the park
stick a certain amount of RL in the microwave an record how hot you can get it in a certain time. PAO and group III will not heat up well (or at all).
 

kyoo

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: buster
I’m not sure RL’s formulation approach has really changed. It was always “assumed” RL was majority POE, however, it was my understanding that all over their oils have always contained a significant amount of PAO. What made RL stand out is they use far greater %’s of POE than any other brand. Most contain little to no VII’s. I’m not a fan of their street oils as they use too much calcium and a form of moly that I’m not so sure is good in turbo deposit resistance. Where they seem to excel is the racing oil niche market and MC oils.
that much I understood re: POE and PAO - not like each company uses totally one group in their oils. I guess what I'm looking for is, how can I get info about RL's oils are designed for - there seem to be subtleties in their oils that go beyond just listed weights and viscosities. They do list recommended vehicles which can be helpful to an extent, but hard to say for cars not on those lists. Again as an example - small debate for the 3.5L v6 Rav4's to use 30wt vs 20wt - to me then, seems ideal to run a "thick" 20wt oil. here's what RL says about their 0w20: High natural viscosity index (VI) provides thicker oil film in bearings and cams Sounds perfect, but there are other subtleties I'm sure that I don't see
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
Messages
13,729
Location
Middlesex County CT
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
stick a certain amount of RL in the microwave an record how hot you can get it in a certain time. PAO and group III will not heat up well (or at all).
? What are you suggesting? The by product of combustion is thermal heat, not microwaves.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,286
Location
Michigan
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
stick a certain amount of RL in the microwave an record how hot you can get it in a certain time. PAO and group III will not heat up well (or at all).
? What are you suggesting? The by product of combustion is thermal heat, not microwaves.
That Redline has a high percentage of esters, which are polar molecules, and will heat up in a microwave oven. Other oils that don't have high percentage of ester will not heat up in a microwave.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
35,657
Location
NJ
Well, that's misleading then bc per MSDS they contain a good dose of PAO.
 
Joined
Nov 16, 2002
Messages
35,657
Location
NJ
Honestly, RL's formualtions are old school. Calcium is way too high for DI engines, and the ZDP levels are too high for modern engines. Their greatest attribute is the POE base oils and high shear stability. Other than that, not much to be desired. If I had to guess, using a more modern additive/detergent system in combination with the current level of POE they use it would increase the price drastically.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2002
Messages
43,666
Location
'Stralia
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Redline hasn't changed their website. They still say "fully synthetic ester formula" right on the top of their Products page. http://www.redlineoil.com/products.aspx
Again, in advertising. Fully Synthetic...PAO and ESTER make this true. Ester Formula ... Formula contains esters. Doesn't make it "Fully ester"
 

kyoo

Thread starter
Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
221
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: buster
Honestly, RL's formualtions are old school. Calcium is way too high for DI engines, and the ZDP levels are too high for modern engines. Their greatest attribute is the POE base oils and high shear stability. Other than that, not much to be desired. If I had to guess, using a more modern additive/detergent system in combination with the current level of POE they use it would increase the price drastically.
sounds pretty good to me - none of my engines are "modern." the conversation has slightly derailed to PAO POE content, which is fine but - what I'm trying to ask is - what makes the 5w30 better than both the 10w30 and the 0w30? is it to do with friction modifiers? doesn't necessarily seem like choosing the one that your engine is designed for 'works' with red line as well.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top