I'm about to install synthetic
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All of the "dino and synthetic provides same wear" arguements ASSuME that a simple $10-20 UOA will be able to provide sufficient, precise and accurate enough data to "prove" whether either type of oil is better or not.
I don't see using UOAs as able to provide the definitive answer to the question.
I don't see using UOAs as able to provide the definitive answer to the question.
I agree that uoa's don't tell the whole story, but they're the best we've got (for the money) at judging just how well certain oils protect your engine. If synthetic really did provide superior protection against wear, i think we'd see a more noticeable difference in the reports when compared to a report with dino.
I'd also like to point out that i agree with BrianWC, theres a lot of factors. In addition to what he said, in my opinion the temperature is also a factor. It's no secret that synthetic has better flow against a dino in cold weather, so with that said i think use of a synthetic in very cold weather would probably show less wear than a dino. I think theres a lot to it, but in most normal conditions for everyday driving, i still stand by what i said earlier. Just my .02
I'd also like to point out that i agree with BrianWC, theres a lot of factors. In addition to what he said, in my opinion the temperature is also a factor. It's no secret that synthetic has better flow against a dino in cold weather, so with that said i think use of a synthetic in very cold weather would probably show less wear than a dino. I think theres a lot to it, but in most normal conditions for everyday driving, i still stand by what i said earlier. Just my .02
I had a huge explaination for you guys but ran outa steam in my post. Sorry. My best advice is to study the UOA section. Look for common denominators like driving conditions, vehicle and engine types, common issues for particular engines, miles traveled, wear (ppm of iron, lead & aluminum), wear per 1000 miles, unusual conditions like high silicon (poor air filtration) and coolant contamination. You'll quickly see that the syn guys only benefit if they go for long OCIs. Even then, you only break even in cost.
For my truck, I run synthetic (M1) in the winter and a dino (Motorcraft 5w-30 Group II + III blend) in the summer. The winters can get cold, and without a garage, the truck sees at least 2 cold starts a day. The synthetic has proven to lube faster at cold temps than dino. Just look at cold temp pumpability and viscosity numbers. And of course, the noise factor. Other than that, my truck sees a lot of easy highway miles, no heavy hauling or towing, so oil temps are almost always in the sweet spot. I drive a lot of miles, so 5K OCIs are common and allows me to regularly inspect the drivetrain on a regular basis. I also grease all of the fitting (11 on the front end) at this time too. I've yet to do an UOA, but will be soon. However, other Chevy/GMC trucks with the same engines have shown excellent results with similar practices.
So, if you decide to use syn, thats great. But I encourage you to research a little more and decide what you need based upon your actual application first. Don't assume the synthetic will protect better than a dino.
For my truck, I run synthetic (M1) in the winter and a dino (Motorcraft 5w-30 Group II + III blend) in the summer. The winters can get cold, and without a garage, the truck sees at least 2 cold starts a day. The synthetic has proven to lube faster at cold temps than dino. Just look at cold temp pumpability and viscosity numbers. And of course, the noise factor. Other than that, my truck sees a lot of easy highway miles, no heavy hauling or towing, so oil temps are almost always in the sweet spot. I drive a lot of miles, so 5K OCIs are common and allows me to regularly inspect the drivetrain on a regular basis. I also grease all of the fitting (11 on the front end) at this time too. I've yet to do an UOA, but will be soon. However, other Chevy/GMC trucks with the same engines have shown excellent results with similar practices.
So, if you decide to use syn, thats great. But I encourage you to research a little more and decide what you need based upon your actual application first. Don't assume the synthetic will protect better than a dino.
You shouldn't have any problems with using Mobil 1 straightaway.
I did the same thing last year with my 2001 Taurus at 60K. Ran Mobil 1 5W-30 SM for initial 3K OCI; it was pitch black at 3K. Subsequently installed Mobil 1 5W-20 SM and Amsoil EA oil filter.
Now have almost 5K (7K OCI) on that oil and is still dark amber in colour. Most of the cleaning occur during initial OCI.
I'm not keen of Auto Rx as it seem to be a harsh environment for the engine. I prefer the less intense, long-term cleaning of Mobil 1 without additives.
(deleting this post as not to offend some folks..)
I'm done..
Take care, Bill
[ August 10, 2006, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Bill in Utah ]
I'm done..
Take care, Bill
[ August 10, 2006, 12:05 PM: Message edited by: Bill in Utah ]
I still feel synthetic protects and has less wear then regular motor oil. What makes oil the property of what it does is base science. Regular oil can only be refined to do so much. Molecules are different in crude oil over synthetic oil. It was what we had when we didn't know better and worked "alright to downright good". How about raising your standard? How about using synthetic with the low temp flow ability and the higher heat index? How about the fact that there is less wear with synthetic than regular crude oil? How about the fact that on all the vehicles I've owned and driven I consistently got better gas mileage with synthetic...always! I've told the guys at Autozone... if your oil was free, I'd still buy the synthetic, just because of the fuel savings. Running synthetic oil doesn't cost, it pays.
Get the feeling I like synthetic?
Get the feeling I like synthetic?
Listen more. For shorter intervals there are many UOAs on here that have shown little to know difference between dino and synth DEPENDING on the vehicle and driving style.quote:
Originally posted by KieferS:
I've heard many things on this forum, but "synthetic over all does not protect better than dino" is not one of them. And i thought 5k intrevels on a bucks oil was rediculous- sheesh
Im pretty sure that every one that lives in ATL, or any other city like it will benefit from synthetic. Unless- you are 90 years old and drive 2000 miles a year or something like that. For most ppl- i think they would benefit from synthetic over a conventional. Now- would i still use synthetic if discount auto dino was free? HECK NO!!! the savings in fuel is def. not worth the 7 bucks a quart i'd buy from mobil- and i can suffer the slight loss in performance. Wouldn't you agree that everyone that lives in a city such as atlanta would benefit from a synthetic? severe heat, stop and go, short trips on weekends, etc. I'd use atleast a blend, even if it were as some one said "---< | | >---" much better.
For short trips, no, not everyone. Especially not the people who are going to drain it in 3-5k. Granted every engine is different. My model of saab has the UOAs to prove it's Russian Roulette to go over 5k even with the best synths, but by and large...take the time to read through the UOAs
But- the savings you wanted on oil- are all lost when you do a UOA- it'd be cheaper just to change your dino at 3500, and swap it out with chevron supreme at 89 cents a quart, than to have a UOA done wouldn't it? sort of defeats the purpose- but it is exiting for some one to tell you the condition of your engine based on just an oil sample. It's like some sort of magic trick- and its impressive really.
I wouldn't use dino oil if you paid me 7.00 / quart to take it. I'd STILL buy the synthetic oil and smile when I gas up. I drive around 10,000 miles between oil changes and I can honestly say I get 3 mpg better with my synthetic than regular oil, same grade/weight. In 10,000 miles that translates from 500 gallons (@20 MPG) vs 435 gallons (@23 mpg) = $195.00 at $3.00/gallon for gas. Now, if you figure that gas won't stay at 3.00 for the duration of the 10,000 miles, then where would that leave you? What was the price of gas you paid for your car 10,000 miles ago?
You honestly are claiming and expect us to believe that synthetic oil gets you 15% better gas mileage?!?!?
I have two questions;
1) Do you have any data to back up this claim?
2) What brand and weight of synthetic are you using, I'm going to have to get some of that magic juice!
I have two questions;
1) Do you have any data to back up this claim?
2) What brand and weight of synthetic are you using, I'm going to have to get some of that magic juice!
I wasn't saying go do one. I was saying to go look at some yourself to see the comparable results between dinos and synths at short miles in a good many engine.
As for UOA's, you don't HAVE to do one every oil change. But if you keep a car a while you can do a couple and get an idea how long you can leave an oil in. It's not magic, it's quite simple. But it's your dollar....
5W-30 Amsoil High Performance. Here is the link:
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx
When my wife first bought the car she was driving 87 miles one way to work (174miles RT). She was burning regular and the car was new to us (used) and had about 137,000 miles on it. The oil was clean in there when we bought it from the guy and she continued to drive it for a few months. During that time she saved her gas receipts and mileage, and she showed then that she was getting 29.2 MPG nearly consistnently. We drove to South Bend Indiana in that car and checked the mileage again on that trip, and it was 29.3 mpg.. so safe to say 29.2 was what she was getting.
Last June, my daughter and I made a trip to Nebraska and back. Several times we got 34.6 and one time we got 34.4 MPG on our trip with the synthetic oil.
So, I really don't know what to tell you guys, other than we really like the stuff. Her car has excellent performance and zip, burns no oil, and hear no clatter ever with over 210,000 miles on it now using synthetic. You would be hard pressed to sell me on any idea of going back to regular oil. I like the fact that synthetic oil has no Viscosity Index Improvers. Under wear and tear from normal engines the VI improvers on regular oil bust appart after a short time and the rated protection on the high end, upper viscosity, begins to break down and not provide the shear protection it did when new. It doesn't take 3000 miles for that to happen either. It just becomes a great polisher of bearing and surfaces after while and eventually things wear our like that.
I've seen a diesel engine taken apart with over 800,000 miles on it running synthetic changed every 100,000 miles and the cylinder sleeves still had cross hatch marks on them after all those miles. The rod and main bearings were still within spec of OEM new. The upper valve system was virtually wear free. Imagine, not wearing out the cross hatch marks in the cylinder after all that time! He now has over 500,000 miles on his new truck with the same oil and runs superb.
You all can belive what you want. Makes no difference to me, just I'm not going back..been there.. done that.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asl.aspx
When my wife first bought the car she was driving 87 miles one way to work (174miles RT). She was burning regular and the car was new to us (used) and had about 137,000 miles on it. The oil was clean in there when we bought it from the guy and she continued to drive it for a few months. During that time she saved her gas receipts and mileage, and she showed then that she was getting 29.2 MPG nearly consistnently. We drove to South Bend Indiana in that car and checked the mileage again on that trip, and it was 29.3 mpg.. so safe to say 29.2 was what she was getting.
Last June, my daughter and I made a trip to Nebraska and back. Several times we got 34.6 and one time we got 34.4 MPG on our trip with the synthetic oil.
So, I really don't know what to tell you guys, other than we really like the stuff. Her car has excellent performance and zip, burns no oil, and hear no clatter ever with over 210,000 miles on it now using synthetic. You would be hard pressed to sell me on any idea of going back to regular oil. I like the fact that synthetic oil has no Viscosity Index Improvers. Under wear and tear from normal engines the VI improvers on regular oil bust appart after a short time and the rated protection on the high end, upper viscosity, begins to break down and not provide the shear protection it did when new. It doesn't take 3000 miles for that to happen either. It just becomes a great polisher of bearing and surfaces after while and eventually things wear our like that.
I've seen a diesel engine taken apart with over 800,000 miles on it running synthetic changed every 100,000 miles and the cylinder sleeves still had cross hatch marks on them after all those miles. The rod and main bearings were still within spec of OEM new. The upper valve system was virtually wear free. Imagine, not wearing out the cross hatch marks in the cylinder after all that time! He now has over 500,000 miles on his new truck with the same oil and runs superb.
You all can belive what you want. Makes no difference to me, just I'm not going back..been there.. done that.
So am I to understand that you have a vehicle that got 29.2 mpg consistently with 5w30 "regular oil" and now gets 34.6 mpg with Amsoil 5w30 High Performance? And there were no other changes or maintenance performed to the vehicle. An 18.5% increase in efficiency.
You mentioned another vehicle that gets 20 mpg with "regular oil" and 23 mpg with the same weight/grade of Amsoil. A 15% increase in efficiency.
Simply amazing results in both cases. I wonder why they have trouble selling the stuff.
You mentioned another vehicle that gets 20 mpg with "regular oil" and 23 mpg with the same weight/grade of Amsoil. A 15% increase in efficiency.
Simply amazing results in both cases. I wonder why they have trouble selling the stuff.
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