Originally Posted By: eljefino
kingrob said:
If the American Car Companies Fail...
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Originally Posted By: kingrob
Actually I have owned two Nissans. One was a Sentra (which for the record out of about forty five cars I've owned in my life its the only one to suffer permanent engine damage) and one Maxima. I'll stick with American, thank you.
+100, I had an 02 Sentra, bought new, that was the first car I have ever went through 3 head gaskets on. I'll still buy Japanese cars, but never again anything from Nissan.
Actually I have owned two Nissans. One was a Sentra (which for the record out of about forty five cars I've owned in my life its the only one to suffer permanent engine damage) and one Maxima. I'll stick with American, thank you.
+100, I had an 02 Sentra, bought new, that was the first car I have ever went through 3 head gaskets on. I'll still buy Japanese cars, but never again anything from Nissan.
?? If Mrs Smith stops paying the bank, they will take the car back, at least that's the way it works here in the lower 48.
Now, if you has said, the new Mrs Jones has said, I'm no longer Mrs Smith, I'm Mrs Jones so I am going to keep the car and adjust the payments to fit my desires, you would have a better analogy, but the end result would be the same, the bank would take the car back. You can't walk away from contracts at will.
Now, if you has said, the new Mrs Jones has said, I'm no longer Mrs Smith, I'm Mrs Jones so I am going to keep the car and adjust the payments to fit my desires, you would have a better analogy, but the end result would be the same, the bank would take the car back. You can't walk away from contracts at will.
Originally Posted By: XS650
?? If Mrs Smith stops paying the bank, they will take the car back, at least that's the way it works here in the lower 48.
Now, if you has said, the new Mrs Jones has said, I'm no longer Mrs Smith, I'm Mrs Jones so I am going to keep the car and adjust the payments to fit my desires, you would have a better analogy, but the end result would be the same, the bank would take the car back. You can't walk away from contracts at will.
If the car is worth more than the loan there is no problem, they take the car, if the car is not and they know Mrs Jones has the ability to pay then Mrs Jones will find herself in court. Either way they are going to whack Mrs Jones credit rating so Mrs Jones will get whats comming in the end.
?? If Mrs Smith stops paying the bank, they will take the car back, at least that's the way it works here in the lower 48.
Now, if you has said, the new Mrs Jones has said, I'm no longer Mrs Smith, I'm Mrs Jones so I am going to keep the car and adjust the payments to fit my desires, you would have a better analogy, but the end result would be the same, the bank would take the car back. You can't walk away from contracts at will.
If the car is worth more than the loan there is no problem, they take the car, if the car is not and they know Mrs Jones has the ability to pay then Mrs Jones will find herself in court. Either way they are going to whack Mrs Jones credit rating so Mrs Jones will get whats comming in the end.
IMO the only way to save the big 3 is to let them file for bankruptcy. Then they can be reduced to an efficient size and be broken up into meaningful businesses that actually produce stuffs that is profitable and desirable.
Pro: Sustainable businesses, stable employment for some, profit for some, supply of products for some, chances to fire the bad managements, eliminated golden parachutes, etc.
Con: Someone will be shafted, consumers for orphaned products, some supplier, some employees, union's contracts, and most importantly, the investors got nothing as their shares will be worth zero.
Remember, you can and should only keep something that is sustainable in the long term. Currently the big 3s are not running sustainable businesses.
Pro: Sustainable businesses, stable employment for some, profit for some, supply of products for some, chances to fire the bad managements, eliminated golden parachutes, etc.
Con: Someone will be shafted, consumers for orphaned products, some supplier, some employees, union's contracts, and most importantly, the investors got nothing as their shares will be worth zero.
Remember, you can and should only keep something that is sustainable in the long term. Currently the big 3s are not running sustainable businesses.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
While installing a keyless entry system (with an ignition kill) I found that the ignition switch on my 88 Mustang had been replaced under recall in 1996 but the dealer who performed the recall did not replace the connector, only the switch. The connector showed signs of heat damage (the plastic was brittle and deformed) so I replaced it AND the switch. If they had replaced the connector it would have been spliced into the harness, there were no splices so it was definitely the original connector.
I do not know if Ford's recall documentation directs the dealer to replace the connector if it is damaged. I'd expect that it does.
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
While installing a keyless entry system (with an ignition kill) I found that the ignition switch on my 88 Mustang had been replaced under recall in 1996 but the dealer who performed the recall did not replace the connector, only the switch. The connector showed signs of heat damage (the plastic was brittle and deformed) so I replaced it AND the switch. If they had replaced the connector it would have been spliced into the harness, there were no splices so it was definitely the original connector.
I do not know if Ford's recall documentation directs the dealer to replace the connector if it is damaged. I'd expect that it does.
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Even though I am a ford fan (2007 F350) the only car that I have seen on fire with my own eyes was a Ford Tempo burning in the middle of the street. The only person who I have ever known to have a car catch on fire, yes again another ford tempo, it was a write off.
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Even though I am a ford fan (2007 F350) the only car that I have seen on fire with my own eyes was a Ford Tempo burning in the middle of the street. The only person who I have ever known to have a car catch on fire, yes again another ford tempo, it was a write off.
We've had more trouble with the gm products than the FORDS. Same at work. The FORD engines would outlast the gm ones.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Nothing I like watching more than a Toyota on the side of the road because the entire engine was plugged solid with sludge!
Or one of their trucks with a flat, and then the frame broke in half when the guy stuck a jack underneath it to put on the spare.
DELIGHTFUL.
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Nothing I like watching more than a Toyota on the side of the road because the entire engine was plugged solid with sludge!
Or one of their trucks with a flat, and then the frame broke in half when the guy stuck a jack underneath it to put on the spare.
DELIGHTFUL.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
My Mustang had the ignition switch recall as well. And the fog light wiring fix as well. Fox GT's had TWO fun wiring issues instead of just the ignition switch
Sorry, missed the smiley, saw the fanboys pouring it on and got a tad carried away.....
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
My Mustang had the ignition switch recall as well. And the fog light wiring fix as well. Fox GT's had TWO fun wiring issues instead of just the ignition switch
Sorry, missed the smiley, saw the fanboys pouring it on and got a tad carried away.....
I should have added that I did very much enjoy that cougar..
Originally Posted By: globey
Well said, Saturn Fan. That's why we should support the Big 3 by purchasing from them. Regardless of perception, the Big 3 make quality autos. I will not drive an import car. I have no problems with my Ford Fusion and would buy another one if I had to. I grew up riding in nothing but American and I will drive nothing but American. Just my view.
Have you heard of tough love? Perhaps you're the type of parent that will contiually bail out your teen aged son, even after the 5th DUI...and this policy of yours only enables the son to be a loser.
Same for buying American cars, even as they produce absolute craaap. If you really want the domestic car makers to improve the worse thing you can do is to keep buying them.
If you want proof that the domestics make junk check this out: http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reliabilitylm0.jpg
Don't cast your pearls before the swine...never give your trust to those that have not earned it.
The true American traitor are the domestic car companies, and NOT those Americans that buy foreign cars...after all, it is very unAmerican to buy craaap, and to make it too.
Well said, Saturn Fan. That's why we should support the Big 3 by purchasing from them. Regardless of perception, the Big 3 make quality autos. I will not drive an import car. I have no problems with my Ford Fusion and would buy another one if I had to. I grew up riding in nothing but American and I will drive nothing but American. Just my view.
Have you heard of tough love? Perhaps you're the type of parent that will contiually bail out your teen aged son, even after the 5th DUI...and this policy of yours only enables the son to be a loser.
Same for buying American cars, even as they produce absolute craaap. If you really want the domestic car makers to improve the worse thing you can do is to keep buying them.
If you want proof that the domestics make junk check this out: http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reliabilitylm0.jpg
Don't cast your pearls before the swine...never give your trust to those that have not earned it.
The true American traitor are the domestic car companies, and NOT those Americans that buy foreign cars...after all, it is very unAmerican to buy craaap, and to make it too.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Nothing I like watching more than a Toyota on the side of the road because the entire engine was plugged solid with sludge!
Or one of their trucks with a flat, and then the frame broke in half when the guy stuck a jack underneath it to put on the spare.
DELIGHTFUL.
And as a true American, and patriot, nothing makes me happier then to see GM & Chrysler eat [censored] because they are traitors to this country. It is very UN-American to make craaap.
As for those workers that work for them and for their suppliers, the Japanese and Korean makes that have factories in the USA might be able to absorb many of them.
Originally Posted By: XCELERATIONRULES
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
GM's "intake fiasco" is rivaled only by Ford's ignition switch and cruise control switch fiasco.
The number of cruise control pressure switches that have ACTUALLY caused a problem VS the number of GM engines lost to the intake gaskets leaking coolant into the crankcase and cooking the engine? Yeah, I'll take that bet.
I KNOW of three GM 3.8's right off the top of my head that have failed due to the intake gasket situation.
I know of ZERO Ford vehicles personally that have had ANYTHING arise from the cruise control pressure switch.
Lets take this one step further:
Fix to issue with cruise pressure switch: A fuseable link in the power wire to the switch, or a relay to turn the switch off when the key is off. $.50 for a fuseable link, relay is what, a couple bucks? 20 minutes or so to install the fuseable link, maybe an hour to setup the relay.
Problem solved. Permanently.
GM's intake issue: disassemble top-half of the engine to remove intake manifold. Pull off all intake plumbing. Clean and prep gasket surfaces on both the intake manifold and the cylinder heads. Fit with new gaskets.
You then have to be vigilant because the problem can, and often DOES come back, and then you get to do it AGAIN!
Yes, those two issues sound genuinely comparable, I'm quite glad you brought that up.
No need to get testy, I was just having a bit of fun, notice the smiley at the end of my sentence? I really only mentioned it because you are always touting the virtues of Ford, when my experience with Ford has been completely the opposite.
I could go on about how my in-laws drive only Ford products and since 1994(when I met them) have had major issues with every one except a focus that(is strangely enough) a business vehicle, and an 03 Mustang GT (that only see's about 5k miles a year).
I could also tell you about my wifes (then girlfriends) 91 Cougar that had the recalled ignition switch repaired and then promptly caught fire, but I try not to bash Ford too much....
Nothing makes my morning drive like seeing a ford burning on the side of the road.
Delightful!
Nothing I like watching more than a Toyota on the side of the road because the entire engine was plugged solid with sludge!
Or one of their trucks with a flat, and then the frame broke in half when the guy stuck a jack underneath it to put on the spare.
DELIGHTFUL.
And as a true American, and patriot, nothing makes me happier then to see GM & Chrysler eat [censored] because they are traitors to this country. It is very UN-American to make craaap.
As for those workers that work for them and for their suppliers, the Japanese and Korean makes that have factories in the USA might be able to absorb many of them.
Originally Posted By: parimento1
If the American car companies fail, who will make America's automobiles. This is especially problematic if the United States ever finds itself in a war with Japan again for whatever reason. Who will supply us with military trucks, and civilian automobiles? The French? The Germans? What do you guys think of the bailout in light of this.
They will come from China so do not worry!!!
If the American car companies fail, who will make America's automobiles. This is especially problematic if the United States ever finds itself in a war with Japan again for whatever reason. Who will supply us with military trucks, and civilian automobiles? The French? The Germans? What do you guys think of the bailout in light of this.
They will come from China so do not worry!!!
Quote:
If you want proof that the domestics make junk check this out: http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reliabilitylm0.jpg
What exactly is this proof of? It's a list of "best cars". Who wrote it? What is it based on? How do you determine what makes car "A" better than car "B"?
I don't know what's funnier, that all the top spots are Asian or that Kia is rated higher than any domestic!
If you want proof that the domestics make junk check this out: http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=reliabilitylm0.jpg
What exactly is this proof of? It's a list of "best cars". Who wrote it? What is it based on? How do you determine what makes car "A" better than car "B"?
I don't know what's funnier, that all the top spots are Asian or that Kia is rated higher than any domestic!
Hi,
the situation the US car makers are in now is not unlike that of the British Auto Industry (BAI) of the 1950-1960s
After WW2 the BAI was plagued by a "them and us" Union v Management regime that lasted for years. And a lack of investment!
In 1959 a BMC (Austin, Morris, MG etc)Senior Engineer visited us in NZ (just prior to the Mini's release) and at a Board Meeting (NZMC) made the prophetic statement "....that the BAI would contract from 17 Major Makers to very few. Names like Wolseley, Rover, Hillman and etc would cease to exist"
At 19 and a budding young Engineering Trainee and all ears I had coffee with him privately the following morning. His story was one of struggle, woe and eventually defeat. I spent some time with him as we programmed the introduction of the first CKD Mini out of England. His story never changed!
He turned out to have made a very accurate assessment
In 1962 when I was in England to finish off my Engineering Training there were 32 strikes. Most were over minor ideological issues - one was at MG. The "last out locked" the door Policy was challenged by the Union as "too much responsibilty" if it was an Apprentice - the strike of about 30 people sidelined 17000 employees that time alone. Only 31 other strikes to handle that year!!! This type of relationship breakdown devastated their export markets. It was the same in 1963 as I recall and I did most of my training in London over both years as the Birmingham region became virtually an unreliable "no go" area
Management at all Manufacturers would not invest enough after WW2 either and their facilities, that were already a disaster, became much worse
Some of the Leyland engine design Engineers would actually cry as they found could not secure monies to develop their designs. Leyland's Trucks and Busses were everywhere then.So were Bedfords and etc. They no longer exist!
By the early 1960s the Japanese had arrived Bluebird and things) and the BAI was on the road to a total collapse! They of course never survived
The volume NA Truck Manufacturers are now owned by the Europeans - the same as the high volume high speed heavy diesel engine Manufacturers
The US car makers seem to have suffered much like the Brits.did Investment in the wrong areas, unsurmountable Labour issues and less than accurate short/mid/long term plans about survival in a rapidly changing marketplace
IMHO fuel and lubricant prices in NA will rise to near World standard levels. This should have been foreseen as the Euro and Japanese Auto Industry did - 30 years or so ago! Fuel efficient cars and vehicles will be a real factor in our lives and will eventually change forever what is the popular configuration in NA
If I was Daimler, Porsche-VW-Audi or TATA why would I invest in NA when South America, Asia and India beckon? The case would need to be a very good and very sound one indeed!
At a EM Meeting some years ago I asked why Mobil was not investing in more retail outlets. A quick response from a Senior person was ".....why invest say $6m in Australia when the same amount invested in China for example would produce a hugely different return?"
I was brought up on US cars - Chevs, Fords, Studebakers, Dodges etc - the slow demise of the US Auto Industry is most sad to see. Perhaps its demise is now inevitable! I for one hope not.
The Holden Commodore (GM) and the Ford Falcon range now produced here in Australia are IMO excellent World class cars!
the situation the US car makers are in now is not unlike that of the British Auto Industry (BAI) of the 1950-1960s
After WW2 the BAI was plagued by a "them and us" Union v Management regime that lasted for years. And a lack of investment!
In 1959 a BMC (Austin, Morris, MG etc)Senior Engineer visited us in NZ (just prior to the Mini's release) and at a Board Meeting (NZMC) made the prophetic statement "....that the BAI would contract from 17 Major Makers to very few. Names like Wolseley, Rover, Hillman and etc would cease to exist"
At 19 and a budding young Engineering Trainee and all ears I had coffee with him privately the following morning. His story was one of struggle, woe and eventually defeat. I spent some time with him as we programmed the introduction of the first CKD Mini out of England. His story never changed!
He turned out to have made a very accurate assessment
In 1962 when I was in England to finish off my Engineering Training there were 32 strikes. Most were over minor ideological issues - one was at MG. The "last out locked" the door Policy was challenged by the Union as "too much responsibilty" if it was an Apprentice - the strike of about 30 people sidelined 17000 employees that time alone. Only 31 other strikes to handle that year!!! This type of relationship breakdown devastated their export markets. It was the same in 1963 as I recall and I did most of my training in London over both years as the Birmingham region became virtually an unreliable "no go" area
Management at all Manufacturers would not invest enough after WW2 either and their facilities, that were already a disaster, became much worse
Some of the Leyland engine design Engineers would actually cry as they found could not secure monies to develop their designs. Leyland's Trucks and Busses were everywhere then.So were Bedfords and etc. They no longer exist!
By the early 1960s the Japanese had arrived Bluebird and things) and the BAI was on the road to a total collapse! They of course never survived
The volume NA Truck Manufacturers are now owned by the Europeans - the same as the high volume high speed heavy diesel engine Manufacturers
The US car makers seem to have suffered much like the Brits.did Investment in the wrong areas, unsurmountable Labour issues and less than accurate short/mid/long term plans about survival in a rapidly changing marketplace
IMHO fuel and lubricant prices in NA will rise to near World standard levels. This should have been foreseen as the Euro and Japanese Auto Industry did - 30 years or so ago! Fuel efficient cars and vehicles will be a real factor in our lives and will eventually change forever what is the popular configuration in NA
If I was Daimler, Porsche-VW-Audi or TATA why would I invest in NA when South America, Asia and India beckon? The case would need to be a very good and very sound one indeed!
At a EM Meeting some years ago I asked why Mobil was not investing in more retail outlets. A quick response from a Senior person was ".....why invest say $6m in Australia when the same amount invested in China for example would produce a hugely different return?"
I was brought up on US cars - Chevs, Fords, Studebakers, Dodges etc - the slow demise of the US Auto Industry is most sad to see. Perhaps its demise is now inevitable! I for one hope not.
The Holden Commodore (GM) and the Ford Falcon range now produced here in Australia are IMO excellent World class cars!
Lovcom, you are apparently one of the thousands of brainwashed morons that think American car companies are [censored] because it's what everyone tells you to think. Have you had any personal experience with an American vehicle? Actually, you know what, I don't even care if you have. Because even if you had a bad experience with that vehicle(s), there is someone else who has had numerous bad experiences with a Japanese (or any other kind) vehicle.
Has it ever occured to you that maybe people don't buy an American car because it's "patriotic," but because they're actually impressed with it's performance/reliabilty/looks/etc?
Even if a company made junk 10 years ago, they are not doomed to make junk forever. There is such thing as improvement.
Go check out and test drive some of the vehicles the domestics have to offer. [sentence deleted, keep it civil] I don't care if a family member bought a brand new (at the time) domestic 15 years ago and had a bad experience. Like I said, companies can improve.
Furthermore, even if you had bad experience with say, a Chevy for example, then it is simply not fair to say that Ford and the other domestics are junk just because the company originated in the same country. That's like me saying "I had a bad experience with Honda, so that means all Toyotas and Nissans are junk."
The domestics are well on their way to building better quality vehicles than the completely OVERRATED Japanese vehicles.
IMO, they are already there and have been for quite a while.
Has it ever occured to you that maybe people don't buy an American car because it's "patriotic," but because they're actually impressed with it's performance/reliabilty/looks/etc?
Even if a company made junk 10 years ago, they are not doomed to make junk forever. There is such thing as improvement.
Go check out and test drive some of the vehicles the domestics have to offer. [sentence deleted, keep it civil] I don't care if a family member bought a brand new (at the time) domestic 15 years ago and had a bad experience. Like I said, companies can improve.
Furthermore, even if you had bad experience with say, a Chevy for example, then it is simply not fair to say that Ford and the other domestics are junk just because the company originated in the same country. That's like me saying "I had a bad experience with Honda, so that means all Toyotas and Nissans are junk."
The domestics are well on their way to building better quality vehicles than the completely OVERRATED Japanese vehicles.
IMO, they are already there and have been for quite a while.
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Chrysler will likely drop first, then FoMoCo.
GM will survive in a vastly different configuration, smaller.
Ford blew it with the 500//Taurus exterior design. What a dowdy looking vehicle. All I see driving them around here are old men.
GM will survive in a vastly different configuration, smaller.
Ford blew it with the 500//Taurus exterior design. What a dowdy looking vehicle. All I see driving them around here are old men.
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