If HPL was NOT a sponsor here then how would it truly compare to other boutique oils like redline and Amsoil? What makes HPL different and special?
- Thread starter grammatoncleric
- Start date
But you'll get people who suggest that Pennzoil or Castrol or Quaker State just barely squeak by at the minimum levels in order to meet various requirements or certifications. Or they think that an oil that has 2x the concentration of various ingredients is "better". Whatever happened to the "moly" rage or infatuation here, for example ? People were searching for oils that had the MOST moly, like it made it the holy grail of oils.
On a related note, one guy that did like "moly" seems to have disappeared (or maybe he's blocked me
). He was from TX and had an Accord and an older 300ZX. His avatar was an anime face. Anyone know ?In addition, motor oil overall is a very small part of HPL's portfolio.
I'm currently running Mobil1 in both my vehicles, but am going to switch to HPL next change as a personal experiment. My 93 Isuzu Rodeo has a decent amount of varnish & a valve tick. It has ran on a variety of oils over the years, but have ran Mobil1 FS Euro 5w40 the past 2 oci's. Varnish isn't as dark, & valve tick isn't as loud. I just want to see if HPL will accelerate that process. Even if by a little. Otherwise, I've been impressed with Mobil1 Euro line.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Remember the VI infatuation, along with the moly? That's what made TGMO "the nectar of the Gods", it was a truly bizarre period.But you'll get people who suggest that Pennzoil or Castrol or Quaker State just barely squeak by at the minimum levels in order to meet various requirements or certifications. Or they think that an oil that has 2x the concentration of various ingredients is "better". Whatever happened to the "moly" rage or infatuation here, for example ? People were searching for oils that had the MOST moly, like it made it the holy grail of oils.
On a related note, one guy that did like "moly" seems to have disappeared (or maybe he's blocked me
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2021
- Messages
- 1,370
I feel like the VI infatuation is still going even though it seems to be realistically a non-issue either way.
One quart of M1 0W40.
Three quarts of TGMO.
Three quarts of TGMO.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, though it kind of went the other way. With the TGMO thing, it was about having this "stratospheric" VI, whilst more recently, folks have been pining after oils with the least amount of VII, hence HPL's "no-VII" series.
The issue is form and dosage of VII.
A high VI from a good quality PAO base oil is good. A high VI from a load of VII polymer is not good. I like to look at Noack in relation to VI. If the VI is high and Noack is low, then it's likely a good quality base oil. If the VI is high and Noack is also high, it's likely a junk base oil with a load of VII in it.
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2023
- Messages
- 134
Probably a wrong thread to ask but exactly does VI and VII do? In my book it's a Roman numeral 6 and 7.
A PQIA virgin oil analysis doesn’t tell you anything about an oil’s suitability for a given application. That’s what certifications and specifications are for. And SN has been obsolete for several years now, replaced with API SP.
CATERHAM was quite the cat up in that TGMO tree, wasn’t he??
To me, in general, VII should be considered a 4-letter dirty word. I know there are different kinds and qualities of VII used. In HPL, we are told that a minimal (or zero) quantity of high-quality star VIIs are used, but in shelf stock oils aimed at a given price bracket, there is no solid info on quantity or quality of VIIs.
This steers me away from a majority of the 0w oils on the shelf, as they generally use a very thin base oil with lots of VII. I’d love to see the KRL test results (viscosity loss due to mechanical shear) for some of the higher-VI oils.
KRL test revealed that the Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90 essentially did not shear at all (0.06% loss), but that was just one facet of choosing an oil. HPL bares its results even when they may not be #1 in a given test, because when you assess the entire picture, there are very few alternatives that meet the overall performance of HPL’s oils. And even then, Dave does not brag on his offerings nor bad-mouth the competition.
That’s class right there, and that’s who I’m spending my money with.
VI = viscosity index. The higher the number, the less viscosity change between KV40 and KV100.
VII = viscosity index improver. These are polymers that have long tails, and when cold they shrink and are less viscous. As the oil warms up, they expand and make the oil thicker. When VIIs are sheared, the oil thins out much more when hot, and bad things can happen.
You ideally want as little VII as necessary as all VIIs shear to some extent, even the best quality ones. The really good star polymers will shear as little as 3% while the cheaper olefin copolymers can shear as much as 70%. You'll be hard pressed to find the former in any API rated oil on the shelf. They almost all contain cheap OCPs with 30-50 SSI (shear stability index) because API standards are too weak to incentivize anything better than that. You'd have to look to boutique brands to find the better quality ones, and they'll be using much less of it as well.
VIIs act like a multiplier for the base viscosity. Therefore, anytime something dilutes or reduces the viscosity of the base oil, that drop in viscosity is magnified when there's a lot of VII present. An engine that sees a lot of fuel dilution will not like an oil with high VII content. This is the basis for HPL's "No VII" series of oils. They are made with top shelf base oils that can meet that multi-grade without any VII content, making them very shear stable.
VIIs act like a multiplier for the base viscosity. Therefore, anytime something dilutes or reduces the viscosity of the base oil, that drop in viscosity is magnified when there's a lot of VII present. An engine that sees a lot of fuel dilution will not like an oil with high VII content. This is the basis for HPL's "No VII" series of oils. They are made with top shelf base oils that can meet that multi-grade without any VII content, making them very shear stable.
I am no fan of ANY oil. Some are probably a little better (I'm talking 5w-30 - one of the more common oils used in "Murica) but that's really going to come down to 2 things. Driving conditions and intervals of les changes.
Per the data (which is not some poster with a bajillion posts TELLING me that HPL is better cause their super slipper base blah blah blah is better (even if they follow it up with smart sounding reasoning) I have come to learn that HPL really is a cut above.
I have also come to learn that unless you have a driving desire to run a LOOOOONNNGGGGG OCI - there is absolutely PROBABLY not enough difference to make a difference in whatever you run. A 5-7k interval, you PROABABLY aren't getting much additional benefit from ANY 5w-30 from the Walsmarts flavor to HPL no VII - which if I'm not mistaken is the biggest shiniest jewel in HPL's crown.
Again - this is all very dependent upon 2 things (3 if you count 'problem child engines', but again, a shorter OCI should really cover that) which are driving conditions (I beat on my 4 cylinder like it's a government mule or I tow a lot) and long intervals.
So - I'll give it it's well deserved accolades. It's great for severe duty or long intervals. It's probably even better at the myth (and this IS NOT HPL's FAULT AS I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM MAKE THIS CLAIM) that it will turn back the odometer or the clock on your engine. That is a by-product of people claiming sh1$ that they really believe, but probably really isn't happening in reality. I'll probably run a run of it along with some of that super colon blow (HPL engine cleaner) that they sell in another 50-75k miles. I certainly won't run it for 5k-7k miles and put it in the landfill bucket just because it's MARGINALLY better than Mobil 1 etc... 3-4 times a year.
TL;DR
It's great stuff, probably the best of the best, but it's probably not a whole hell of a lot better than AMSOIL or SOPUS unless you beat on your vehicle or change the oil every 20k.
Per the data (which is not some poster with a bajillion posts TELLING me that HPL is better cause their super slipper base blah blah blah is better (even if they follow it up with smart sounding reasoning) I have come to learn that HPL really is a cut above.
I have also come to learn that unless you have a driving desire to run a LOOOOONNNGGGGG OCI - there is absolutely PROBABLY not enough difference to make a difference in whatever you run. A 5-7k interval, you PROABABLY aren't getting much additional benefit from ANY 5w-30 from the Walsmarts flavor to HPL no VII - which if I'm not mistaken is the biggest shiniest jewel in HPL's crown.
Again - this is all very dependent upon 2 things (3 if you count 'problem child engines', but again, a shorter OCI should really cover that) which are driving conditions (I beat on my 4 cylinder like it's a government mule or I tow a lot) and long intervals.
So - I'll give it it's well deserved accolades. It's great for severe duty or long intervals. It's probably even better at the myth (and this IS NOT HPL's FAULT AS I HAVE NEVER SEEN THEM MAKE THIS CLAIM) that it will turn back the odometer or the clock on your engine. That is a by-product of people claiming sh1$ that they really believe, but probably really isn't happening in reality. I'll probably run a run of it along with some of that super colon blow (HPL engine cleaner) that they sell in another 50-75k miles. I certainly won't run it for 5k-7k miles and put it in the landfill bucket just because it's MARGINALLY better than Mobil 1 etc... 3-4 times a year.
TL;DR
It's great stuff, probably the best of the best, but it's probably not a whole hell of a lot better than AMSOIL or SOPUS unless you beat on your vehicle or change the oil every 20k.
False. Less wear is less wear. Cleaner internals is cleaner internals. Mileage doesn’t have anything to do with it, other than once you stack up a couple OCIs, the difference is more noticeable, and your wallet is lighter due to more frequent changes.
The "real world" proof folks seek simply isn't available or possible. Therefore, we go off of approvals/certifications if available which guarantee a standard of performance OR here on BITOG, we spend the time to research/gain knowledge of the various additive packages and base stocks. So for HPL or Amsoil that don't have the formal approvals/certs - we spend time researching the various components ( PAO/Ester/ANs) and the folks producing the oil itself (credibility). That's really it. There is no magic here, these boutique oils are a niche and those that want to spend the time to learn about/understand them (which is a hobby for some) can reap the benefits that require a bit of "faith" to gain value from b/c we can't actually see those benefits beyond what we can infer from UOAs. UOAs, while valuable, aren't the magic bullet folks want it to be but many longer-run UOAs on HPL indicate that these oils are doing what folks say they are and should give confidence in their use. I have 6 vehicles in front of my house, I am running HPL/higher-end oil in one (the one that sees track use). The rest are a blend of inexpensive store-brand (ST) and Liquimoly that I get for free from FCP Euro...all of which provide the necessary performance in the given applications. If HPL wasn't involved in this forum I still think HPL would be a well-regarded product by some users here but likely wouldn't have much bandwidth in terms of number of users. There is nothing nefarious here, HPL isn't lining anyone's pockets to shill their product but there is some blind allegiance/"fanboism" that can get a bit over-the-top but it happens on every forum/group I've been part of with the fan-favorite of the day products. I don't see HPL dropping off in popularity, it's a top-notch product with nothing to hide so there is really no reason for that to happen. I'll say it again, if you are a Joe-average vehicle owner/driver, these products make sense only if you push your OCIs OR track (or tow etc.) the vehicle. 5K drains is just throwing money away but of course that's your prerogative to spend your money as you see fit. I'm not sure I understand the posts like this, what is it the folks want to uncover?
Last edited:
Is this related to when one engine oil producer (Mobil, Castrol, ???) called their oil "synthetic" when it wasn't or was a blend or something, then effectively changed the definition of synthetic ? I wasn't here when that happened.... but I can imagine how triggered many got over this !! 