Does anyone remember the disasterous GM 10W40 ?
If HPL was NOT a sponsor here then how would it truly compare to other boutique oils like redline and Amsoil? What makes HPL different and special?
- Thread starter grammatoncleric
- Start date
There was a cult like following of the blend, SM Castrol Edge 0W20, and TGMO around here. He was regarded as a well respected member. Fads come and go around here, and no disrespect to him intended. I took the thin oil bait for a while, around 2008, live and learn.
And what does this supposedly do for you?
The idea was that very high VI 0W20 ran much thinner than standard 0W20.
The M1 0W40 of the day had very low Cold Cranking numbers. Additionally there was a fair amount of Group IV. Also, it sheared quickly to essentially a thick 30 grade.
This combo was deemed the best of all worlds, an ultra thin oil with adequate MOFT.
No, it needs to be euthanized.
If I enthusiastically mix that stuff up, will I need to consult a divorce lawyer?
I ran a mix of Valvoline and Pennz utlra a couple of changes ago just to get rid of the 3 straggler quarts of Valvoline I had. Did I f up my engine because I just poured them down the pour hole without any enthusiasm?
What's really funny is that I was pretty addicted to this site up until about 2016, then decided that oil was oil (and it is, prove me wrong) - and I STILL remember CATHERHAM.
Enjoying this thread, one of the best I have caught up on admittedly. Hope it doesnt get locked due to rule breaking.
Regardless, I like hype oils but have historically stuck to lower cost options.
Regardless, I like hype oils but have historically stuck to lower cost options.
I will likely not purchase HPL because the prices are out of my budget. However, I get what they're doing and wish them well. In years to come, HPL may be more affordable for the masses or they may prefer there current business model. Little pink houses...
I will agree to disagree. If mileage is irrelevant "other once you stack up a couple of OCI's", then mileage is completely relevant. You can't say 1+4 = 5 unless you agree that 1+1 = 2. It either is or it isn't. You make a lot of sense most of the time.
I will agree that less wear is less wear. I will also submit that there is always going to be some wear, and most of the time (not all of the time) your oil (changed at reasonable intervals) is going to provide enough wear protection (do they still use that as a marketing tool?) over the life of the vehicle providing you use a good reputable oil - aw hell, I've made this argument before - I'll tap out this time....
I mean - aren't there a few trillion miles by now on vehicles that have lived long serviceable lives that have never seen a drop of anything other than a SOPUS product? That have more or less rotted away from the outside rather than died a catastrophic engine failure?
I still haven't seen enough proof to say that there is enough difference in ANY boutique oil over a commercially available product in regards to 'engine wear' to make a difference.
Take for example, the 3.5 Ecoboost and it's litany of cam phaser problems. If an engine is a problem child engine, it's going to be a problem child engine. Would HPL help with the 3 valve Tritons of the 2000's? The balh blah blah other problem child families that Honda, Toyota, etc.... have produced? Would it be better if HPL bought a something or other an extra 6k miles and it let go at 96k rather than 90k?
Only the person running it can be the judge.
I've admitted that HPL is probably the best of the best (cause data), but the tolerances that make it better are mighty slim to slim in most cases.
Shel_B
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Isn't that the way it is with every product? Once a certain point is reached, each step of improvement becomes smaller and more expensive to achieve. To some, those improvements are worth the cost.
The theme of this site. If you drive a normal car in normal conditions follow the owner's manual and buy a synthetic you've heard of. It'll be fine. If you enjoy amateur science and data (or professional) run the stuff you don't need to and geek out over it. HPL and others probably are *better* than the NAPA "on sale synthetic" or Costco or Super Tech or Quaker State or Mobil 1 I may choose to run. But I'm confident my Toyota engine will still easily push 300k regardless. And it'll be 15-20 years old at that point and it'll be about time to pass it along to someone else.
Everyone needs a ceramic coating. You're wrong there. But not the real kind. The $15 spray bottle kind. But run cheap oil. That's my motto. Because the extra steps to washing the car lead to a few more minutes of solace, solitude, and moments for self reflection. Regardless of your brand of oil it will takes about 30 minutes to change your oil. No real world value as to why many of us still do our own work sometimes.
Some of those "diminishing returns" can still pay off much larger than their initial cost.
If I was building a new performance engine today, you can bet your butt that at a bare minimum, the main & rod bearings will be dry film coated, that the piston skirts will be coated, wrist pins DLC coated, and the headers will be coated.
If we're going deeper, piston tops and chambers/valves will have reflective coatings, bottom of intake will have thermal barrier, tops and inside of intake, along with oil pan will have dissipative coatings, and so on. But yes, just the first paragraph is realistically enough to maximize safety and performance without adding any substantive cost to the project.
Just like I figured REM isofinishing would be a great idea on ring & pinions, but our board angel said that performance teams have actually found this to be a negative process on R&Ps, because the gear oil has nothing to cling to and it is harder to transfer heat from a highly polished surface! Isofinished sets actually showed microwelding and overall failures due to not maintaining MOFT between the gear teeth... So... crank wings - yes, ring gears - no.
Building a performance engine is definitely different Flogging your engine regularly (i.e. tracking or drag racing) you'd probably also notice a small difference too. But if you drag race seriously you're probably often tearing apart and replacing engine parts.Some of those "diminishing returns" can still pay off much larger than their initial cost.
If I was building a new performance engine today, you can bet your butt that at a bare minimum, the main & rod bearings will be dry film coated, that the piston skirts will be coated, wrist pins DLC coated, and the headers will be coated.
If we're going deeper, piston tops and chambers/valves will have reflective coatings, bottom of intake will have thermal barrier, tops and inside of intake, along with oil pan will have dissipative coatings, and so on. But yes, just the first paragraph is realistically enough to maximize safety and performance without adding any substantive cost to the project.
Just like I figured REM isofinishing would be a great idea on ring & pinions, but our board angel said that performance teams have actually found this to be a negative process on R&Ps, because the gear oil has nothing to cling to and it is harder to transfer heat from a highly polished surface! Isofinished sets actually showed microwelding and overall failures due to not maintaining MOFT between the gear teeth... So... crank wings - yes, ring gears - no.
I'm nitpicking here but the coating lite products like Can Coat are just as easy to apply as a $15 spray bottle and will holding up for well over a year making cleaning easier. So IMO the coating lite products are the sweet spot. Also makes cleaning easier via air drying.
But definitely not a necessity.
This is what got me hooked on properly built, less-than-max-effort turbo engines. I've been reading about Larry Larson and others with their sub-6 second "street" cars, and they literally drive to the next track and pull out the lawn chairs... no last-minute thrashing on plug gaps, or lash settings, or nitrous jets, or empty bottles, etc.
Build a big, overbuilt engine with a tame cam. Slap twin 88-106mm turbos on it. Make 3000+ horsepower and be able to tune it down to 300HP and run on pump gas. Enjoy the drive rather than stress about the broken parts!
That's the way to do it. Build it once, build it right.
True and it really depends on the vehicle, engine type, how it's used etc.Some of those "diminishing returns" can still pay off much larger than their initial cost.
If I was building a new performance engine today, you can bet your butt that at a bare minimum, the main & rod bearings will be dry film coated, that the piston skirts will be coated, wrist pins DLC coated, and the headers will be coated.
If we're going deeper, piston tops and chambers/valves will have reflective coatings, bottom of intake will have thermal barrier, tops and inside of intake, along with oil pan will have dissipative coatings, and so on. But yes, just the first paragraph is realistically enough to maximize safety and performance without adding any substantive cost to the project.
Just like I figured REM isofinishing would be a great idea on ring & pinions, but our board angel said that performance teams have actually found this to be a negative process on R&Ps, because the gear oil has nothing to cling to and it is harder to transfer heat from a highly polished surface! Isofinished sets actually showed microwelding and overall failures due to not maintaining MOFT between the gear teeth... So... crank wings - yes, ring gears - no.
I wouldn't run just any oil in a Corvette or other high performance car, I'd use the approved and appropriate lubricant etc.
Where it gets interesting is comparing the top shelf approved lubricants vs non-approved. As I've said before, I can only think of (3) boutique brands that actually offer any value over the off shelf top tier- HPL, Amsoil and Red Line. The rest are snake oil IMO.
I'd be willing to bet Mobil 1 can keep an engine as clean as Red Line and also out last Red Line. I would put HPL/Amsoil in a higher tier than off the shelf Mobil 1.