If fram is so bad, then why is it being sold in every store I go to??

[blupupher]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

---

Originally posted by blupupher:
Just because everyone else buys/sells it does not make it the best.

---

So, what was your point - the fact that millions of motorists use or specify FRAM oil filters without incident over millions of accumulated miles is proof of their inherent inferiority?

---

I never said Fram's were inferior. I was just refering to the original posters question. Maybe I should have used the words "the best" instead of good.

Fram's are "good enough" for most people. While they do fail sometimes, all others do too. Percentage wise, it is probably the same as other brands.

I used them for years with no problems, I figured they cost more and were everywhere so they must be better. I fell for the marketing.
Well, now I know, there are other filters out there for the same or less money that are just as good or better.

Heck, My filter stash is:
1 Wix (~$5, bought it for my Jeep, it will work on my wife's van)
3 ST's (~$2 each)
8 Purolator Premium's ($0.01 each)
3 OEM Hyundai (Free)

So you can see I have no problem using a "cheap" filter.

 

[opus1]

Jessica Simpson sells lots of CD's too.

Sales volumes mean nothing. No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.

 

[Bill in Utah]

quote:

---

However you'd be a hypocrite to buy Fram filters, because they are usually not the cheapest.

---

And thats the reason why I don't buy them anymore.

I can get as good that will protect and perform as well for less.

quote:

---

Bill, you posted a lot of vehicles there, but are those all the vehicles you know? Have you ever heard of an engine failure? Have all of them been proven to not be from one of the above failures?

---

All of the above posted cars/trucks I've owned or my family have/has owned.

ALL have been sold to family to friends so I get to see them go on and live a nice long life!

I've never had a engine failure. I've had a engine need head gaskets twice and we fixed it BEFORE it failed. (my 99 Ford Taurus, now with 145k)Forgot to list it...)

But the cars listed above, all have never had a single problem with their engine.

I'll still state, the folks who are posting about frams, have THEY used them and HAVE they seen FIRST hand any problems.

Or are they going with Internet info?

Thanks for the reply!

Bill

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

If I had a Fram oil filter, I would defenestrate it.

Actually, I would use it first.

 

[Lazy JW]

Actually, there have been literally millions of Volkswagen Beetles that have gone probably billions of miles using no oil filter at all.

I have personally driven them far in excess of 100K with no problems, only routine maintenance.

It wouldn't surprise me if any modern car using modern oils could easily go 100K+ with a single Fram filter, changing only the oil at 3K intervals.

I'm not going to do it myself because I want 300K out of my 98 Trooper.
Joe

 

[Russ300H]

About ten years ago, I built engines for a local NASCAR short track racing team. One battle I lost was the owner wanted to use a remote filter system with the two quart Chevy filter. They bought the filters and bought Fram. I spec'd the oil and bought Redline. Strange combo now that I look back! One night early in the program, the engine lost oil pressure. The driver caught it and quickly turned the engine off. We determined the filter was at fault and replaced it. Since that incident, we switched to NAPA Wix filters as a co owner also owned a NAPA Auto Care center. From the time of switching to Wix we never had an oil related problem.

I didn't disect the filter at the time (I wish I had now), but something obviously happened to restrict the flow of oil internally with the filter. I never realized how bad the Frams were until I read the oil filter study a number of years ago. Dawn broke over Marble head and I realized the filter failed because it was a piece of crap.

The negative Fram articles I see on the web reenforce my experience that it's just not worth playing with fire.

 

[labman]

Why buy the worst there is at any price?

 

[ekpolk]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bill in Utah:
Ok, Fram may not be the best filter but they do work.

And work well.
*snip}

---

The original British Comet Airliner worked, and worked well, until. . .

The original Ford Pinto fuel filling system worked, and worked well, unless. . .

The Titanic was a beautiful, comfortable ship that worked, and worked well, unless. . .

The Space Shuttle's booster rocket O-ring segment seals worked, and worked well, unless. . .

In each of these cases, the designers, operators, or both, cut corners to provide a cheaper, "adequate" product, and we all know what happened as a result.* In my opinion, the flimsy, but "adequate" design of the Fram in just another case of the same. I'll gladly pay a couple bucks more for a design that I can see and feel is superior, even if the probability of a Fram failure on any given day is relatively low. Thanks but no thanks Fram.

* In fairness, the designers of the Comet may have had no idea what pressurization flexing would do to the skin of their aircraft.

 

[T-Keith]

People don't know squat about filters. People tend to buy what they see the most of, or what is the easiest to get.(ie herd mentality) So it's a cycle, whatever is the most popular is the most stocked, whatever is the most stocked is the most popular.

 

[outrun]

"If fram is so bad, then why is it being sold in every store I go to??"

I consider this a silly question from all the info from the board and other resources. It is like peeing on Ed, Frank etc with thier exhausting oil studies.

It always angers me to watch ivy league educated journalists reporters asking the most stupid questions. Paraphrased; Reporter: "Secretary Rumsfeld, will people die in this war," "Rumsfeld: That is the objective of war." I am only a low lying politico estudiante and can produce more sophisticated questions and answers.

Since you asked .... let see here. The corporations could care less if there was cardboard or air as end caps.

Fram knows it has gotten away with a budget saving reliability coup. They only care about thier bottom line ... unscrupolous enough to build a poor filter + paper endcaps. Let us not forget the Bridgestone/Firestone/Ford debacle was caused by Execs wanting to save some .70cents per tire by deleting a nylon band at the expense of safety. Fram knows the avg American consumer is an idiot. They are living off the hey days of the 70's or what not to ensure brand loyalty. Hence they know the idiot will buy it.

The retail gods also know the American consumer is an idiot and in search of the highest profit margin and product name reckognition choose Fram.
Think about it ... a Champion, Purolator, Wix, Hastings generic house branded filter is still more expensive at retailer cost than the Fram. The retailer in turn can mark up the Fram and sell it at near cost claiming its on par and even superior to the aforemention brands. Couple this with AutoZone and Walmart employees saying, "Fram is the best filter out there." and....

Nevermind buy a nice Vette, Infinity, CTS etc car and stick a Fram on it if you believe so much in them. Disrepect and shun all the engineers hard work in them. Your money, we at BITOG faithfully tried to subjectively educate the public on Frams grand sham. Yet, people still remain blindsided by Kmarts, Pep Boys, AutoZones, marketing of Fram.

I hope some day investigative reports, 60 minutes, or consumer reports blows the lid of Frams coup. How can those execs sleep at night? Yup, blood pressure medication time here.....

 

[greg_J35]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rob Taggs:
Fram knows that most people won't take the time to research and find out the truth. Pretty orange cans are appealing to the public.

---

Agreed.

 

[Mr Magoo]

Dale Earnhardt Jr runs Fram oil filters in his race car, so it must be good.

LOL, just kidding.

 

[turbochem]

quote:

---

One night early in the program, the engine lost oil pressure. The driver caught it and quickly turned the engine off. We determined the filter was at fault and replaced it.

---

What would have to happen to a filter for it to cause the engine to completely lose oil pressure?

quote:

---

Fram knows that most people won't take the time to research and find out the truth

---

And what is "the truth?" The years of posting here has shown me tons of people with strong opinions and feelings.....but "the truth?" HHHMMMMMMMM....

quote:

---

It is like peeing on Ed, Frank etc with thier exhausting oil studie

---

Exhausting? You are correct in that respect..

quote:

---

we at BITOG faithfully tried to subjectively educate the public on Frams grand sham.

---

Your public service messages might work better if you try some objectivity for a change....

 

[Cutehumor]

hey bill in utah,

how many miles would you have had if you kept one vehicle over the past two decades? possible irv gordon challenger?

 

[JParrott]

I see a buttload of opinions on here (and I'm willing to bet most of them are taken from something they heard) and very little fact on anything.

Fram's reputation is just like the same crap people used to spread about Pennzoil or any other product that alot of people say is crappy because they heard it from someone else. Just because it's been posted on BITOG that Fram sucks doesn't make it so.

Bill, thanks for posting hard numbers.

There's probably not a thing wrong with Fram filters. You can drive a Chevy like me, or you can buy a Rolls-Royce. Yeah, it might be a better car but I'll bet mine is just fine for anything I need it for and will do the job just as well as the Rolls.

 

[Bill in Utah]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cutehumor:
hey bill in utah,

how many miles would you have had if you kept one vehicle over the past two decades? possible irv gordon challenger?

---

It would have been alot..

The longest I've kept a car was the VW to a little over 200k. If I kept it (and I wish I did, wife wanted a new car) I would have over 400k on it today. And I bet it would still be going.

I was just thinking that since I've sold the VW, I've bought the Taurus and put 86k on it in a little under 3 years, put 24k on the Accord, 42k on the Toyota and for sometime I was driving the 96 truck for about 56k. And my 2000 Truck has gone 43k (turned over on the way to work today.)

So, thats 251k miles in 6 years.. (we have cut back since the fuel cost has gone up..)

Glad we don't drive much..

My normal mode is to keep a outfit till 140-160k and sell it to a friend or family member. They are always asking when I am going to sell something. My current truck has offers on it from both family and friends. (I take care of my cars/trucks)

Since I've bought this Corolla, I am going to take it out. So, stay tuned for how many miles it will go. It will see 28-32k per year plus trips (3-4k worth of trips this summer coming up)..

quote:

---

Bill, thanks for posting hard numbers.

---

Your welcome Jparrot!

I agree with you 100%!

The cars I've used are still running. Well!

If Frams are so bad, how would a car make it to 200,000 miles PLUS?

Many cars/trucks..

I guess the same way they make it that far without running Syn....

Pure luck. 1 in a million..

Again, I don't run Frams now because of the cost.

Do I think they are the "best". Nope.

I think they like most everything else, Frams work and your engine will do well with one, just like if you ran a Supertech, a Wix, a K&N, a Mobil 1 or Pureone.

It's just how much you want to spend. But how much you spend DOES NOT EQUAL longer engine life.

ALOT of folks here think that way..

But it's their $$. I just want to let the folks here see that you don't have to spend tons to get good long life service out of your engine.

As normal, I've said more than my 3 cents.

Take care, bill

 

[Baveux]

According to many peoples , Honda makes fine automobiles. To do so you need to know what you do, if they use Fram, they probably know something we don't,especially on a major and expensive component like an engine.

 

[Dark Jedi]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Baveux:
According to many peoples , Honda makes fine automobiles. To do so you need to know what you do, if they use Fram, they probably know something we don't,especially on a major and expensive component like an engine.

---

or to save money and not let anyone know honda oil filters are fram now. becuase why would honda owners question honda. when they had some of the best oil filters for their engines. they can switch and save moeny and car owners will still think they are getting that same quality oil filter.

 

[Bio-T]

The pro and con of Fram have been discussed and shown many times on many sites. If you like orange buy one. The choice is yours.