ICE vehicles will be 75% of US car market in 2025

[SC Maintenance]

CAFE is a mandate.

When an ICE vehicle goes through a cafe test it gets 40MPG, the cafe number is 40mpg.

When a EV gets 65MPG in a lab, it gets the magic 6.67 multiplier making it 430 MPG - yes, that is the MPGe equivalent for a model Y. Laughable.

Put the whole carbon offset credit game into the mix - which is on its face unconstitutional - then to believe its not a "mandate" your not informed or delusional.

You can call it whatever you want. To believe its not a mandate to force OEM's into EV's is simply incorrect.

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...petroleum-equivalent-fuel-economy-calculation

 

[edyvw]

I can't comment on any of this because it's going to end poorly. If that's the date you want to wear as a badge then you know what my next comment is. I'm done.

I know that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

You really don't understand .

You make a good point; California is a critical car market. We buy a lotta cars.
But you are wrong about mandates; terms have definitions. The use of the word mandate was intentionally mis-used. And it worked; look at all the fabrications that people believe.

 

[edyvw]

You make a good point; California is a critical car market. We buy a lotta cars.
But you are wrong about mandates; terms have definitions. The use of the word mandate was intentionally mis-used. And it worked; look at all the fabrications that people believe.

Which is also used by politicians who also have agendas on both sides.
So, let's not pretend that we don;t know what ultimate goal here is. Mandate or not mandate. You can call it cheesecake.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Which is also used by politicians who also have agendas on both sides.
So, let's not pretend that we don;t know what ultimate goal here is. Mandate or not mandate. You can call it cheesecake.

I'm not pretending anything. Facts matter. There was no Federal EV mandate. The term was intentionally mis-used. People will believe just about anything.

 

[edyvw]

I'm not pretending anything. Facts matter. There was no Federal EV mandate. The term was intentionally mis-used. People will believe just about anything.

Few pages back I said how politicians like to talk AT people not TO people.
The problem for those politicians is, that people eventually see that. So whether they think it is mandate or cheesecake, they understand the ultimate goal of such actions.

 

[Torrid]

Facts don't matter with people like him. Against my better judgement I'm replying again. Definition of a fool.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Few pages back I said how politicians like to talk AT people not TO people.
The problem for those politicians is, that people eventually see that. So whether they think it is mandate or cheesecake, they understand the ultimate goal of such actions.

Which is why I choose to use the proper definition of terms. I don't wanna be led around by the fabrications. It's pretty evident that others choose to buy in, I'm sorry to say. Words matter.

 

[edyvw]

Which is why I choose to use the proper definition of terms. I don't wanna be led around by the fabrications. It's pretty evident that others choose to buy in, I'm sorry to say. Words matter.

So, instead of a federal mandate (which would be politically radioactive, legal issues, etc.), the federal government used CA to push its agenda.
OK. We agree on that.
But how is that different for consumers and citizens?

 

[JeffKeryk]

So, instead of a federal mandate (which would be politically radioactive, legal issues, etc.), the federal government used CA to push its agenda.
OK. We agree on that.
But how is that different for consumers and citizens?

I never said that.
All I am saying is, facts matter, words matter. Otherwise we are not communicating. There never was a Federal EV mandate; it's a fabrication.

 

[SC Maintenance]

So, instead of a federal mandate (which would be politically radioactive, legal issues, etc.), the federal government used CA to push its agenda.
OK. We agree on that.
But how is that different for consumers and citizens?

 

[notharry]

IMO Hybrids are the way. Why do I say that? Well, ICE are reliable for the most part however they are wasteful. Regenerative braking is a big deal. New solar body panels are arriving and add some efficiancy. Toyota has a great system and as batteries get better so will the hybrids. No I dont have one. I cannot see myself ever owning a electric vehicle in my lifetime, but considering hybrid.
A relitive is in construction. He was saying that mass is attempting to mandate solar panels on every new home.

Imagine a world where every building has solar panels and tied to the electric grid. The power would be shared nationally throughout the world and interconnected to our allies. Nuclear power, minimal fosal fuels. It is the only way all electric vehicles will work. our government did things backwards. They tried but One cannot have All electric without the infrastructre. Plus battery tech is just now getting somewhat better with less charging time.

 

[JeffKeryk]

View attachment 261013

Good point. Look at all those ducks being led around. The lemmings march to the sea?

 

[SC Maintenance]

Good point. Look at all those ducks being led around. The lemmings march to the sea?

On point. The lemmings jumping off a cliff is a myth - perpetuated by Walt Disney. Lemmings don't commit suicide.

Just like the myth there is no functional EV mandate

 

[JeffKeryk]

On point. The lemmings jumping off a cliff is a myth - perpetuated by Walt Disney. Lemmings don't commit suicide.

Just like the myth there is no functional EV mandate

There is no Federal EV mandate.

Interestingly, "functional mandate" has a definition. It clearly outlines the precise functions and activities that fall under the mandate holder's authority.

 

[Trav]

Which is why I choose to use the proper definition of terms. I don't wanna be led around by the fabrications. It's pretty evident that others choose to buy in, I'm sorry to say. Words matter.

Really? Look up the definition of de facto. Even Congress is calling it a mandate, which it is.

https://energycommerce.house.gov/po...e-of-bill-to-stop-biden-s-de-facto-ev-mandate

 

[SC Maintenance]

There is no Federal EV mandate.

Interestingly, "functional mandate" has a definition. It clearly outlines the precise functions and activities that fall under the mandate holder's authority.

LOL. I really didn't think you would be the one here pushing this false strawman.

You can call it whatever you want. The government tells OEM's you must achieve a certain MPG for your entire sold fleet or we will make it excessively punitive. You can make a really efficient hybrid that gets 43PG, and you get scored 43 MPG, Or you can make a fairly average EV, and get credit for 430MPG, a 10X benefit to you. And we will give you a $7500 margin improvement program (called a "tax credit" LOL) Oh, and if you have extra MPG to spare, we will invent a currency called "carbon offset credits" and force other OEM's to buy them from you. But build whatever you want. Not a mandate. Have a nice day.

 

[Torrid]

LOL. I really didn't think you would be the one here pushing this false strawman.

You can call it whatever you want. The government tells OEM's you must achieve a certain MPG for your entire sold fleet or we will make it excessively punitive. You can make a really efficient hybrid that gets 43PG, and you get scored 43 MPG, Or you can make a fairly average EV, and get credit for 430MPG, a 10X benefit to you. And we will give you a $7500 margin improvement program (called a "tax credit" LOL) Oh, and if you have extra MPG to spare, we will invent a currency called "carbon offset credits" and force other OEM's to buy them from you. But build whatever you want. Not a mandate. Have a nice day.

You get credit for 80MPGe-110MPGe based on its actual efficiency, not 430MPGe.

Can we please stop with the hyperbole? It's getting old.

This site is losing it's credibility when it comes to EVs. Get your feelings out of the way and talk facts, otherwise I have no interest in even discussing it.

 

[Sam_Julier]

I’m learning a lot from this discussion. I hope the discussion and argument will remain polite.

If it becomes political or unfriendly I will lock the thread.

 

[SC Maintenance]

You get credit for 80MPGe-110MPGe based on its actual efficiency, not 430MPGe.

Can we please stop with the hyperbole? It's getting old.

This site is losing it's credibility when it comes to EVs. Get your feelings out of the way and talk facts, otherwise I have no interest in even discussing it.

I literally linked to a .gov website that outlines the entire thing. There are proposals to change this rule, its existed for as long as EV's - but as of a short time ago at least it still stood.

So don't insult me - read. https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...petroleum-equivalent-fuel-economy-calculation