I need help understanding if Redline or Amsoil is worth it.

[edyvw]

Maybe redline has an issue in their formulation, its a redline problem, not PAO/POE. Does ravenol have all the approvals? Someone said it does. I bet most M3 engines fail not because of oil, but rather poor reliability.

Ravenol is PAO based and much more balanced with other stocks. It generally is not regarded as anything more than other oils. You are viewing this in very simplistic terms. PAO or POE doesn’t mean anything without right combination of other base stocks and additives.
M3 rod bearing issue is more complex than simplistic “reliability” sticker. Since you obviously don’t know what is all about, what oils people use etc. it is irrelevant for this discussion. There are a lot of PAO or POE oils that are garbage. You don’t know how it will perform in certain engine. Just bcs. company claims it does, or has certain base stocks, doesn’t mean anything. They can claim whatever they want.

 

[PeterGreen]

It's obviously not always a rational decision. Lots of us here love our cars. Sometimes there's just a nice zen feeling to using the best product and taking the extra step to keep your car happy.

 

[tolian21]

I dont know about m3 specific problem, but I know that pre-mature engine failures are due to one or more of the following reasons: bad design, bad quality of parts, or poor maintenance.
I also keep hearing the same “its a final product that matters”. I agree, but my opinion is that POA/POE base is superior to group3 if it is formulated properly. Its a big if, nobody knows exactly what those secret additives are or if marketing claims are true.


I have my doubts about Redline performance oil because they do not get official certifications. Its a mystery why, but its not because they use PAO/POE base.

Very tough crowd here, everyone is an expert

 

[TIJOCU]

I dont know about m3 specific problem, but I know that pre-mature engine failures are due to one or more of the following reasons: bad design, bad quality of parts, or poor maintenance.
I also keep hearing the same “its a final product that matters”. I agree, but my opinion is that POA/POE base is superior to group3 if it is formulated properly. Its a big if, nobody knows exactly what those secret additives are or if marketing claims are true.


I have my doubts about Redline performance oil because they do not get official certifications. Its a mystery why, but its not because they use PAO/POE base.

Very tough crowd here, everyone is an expert

Of course not everyone is an expert here. But this is a good place to share information and experience if not taken personally. Get the oil that gives you peace of mind warranty requirements. Though I use Red Line Performance in one vehicle, I just put Kendalls newest formulation synthetic into my pick up. It was less than four dollars a quart and seems like a very good certified oil. I had planned to use Pennzoil Ultra but missed a really good sales price on Amazon so went with Kendall. There seems there is difference in philosophy in what are considered the high performance boutique oils in composition and zinc levels of high performing oils as opposed to the API. This may prevent certification for some of these oils though certain modern engines benefit from high zinc levels or ZDDP (like the LS engines). Not a problem for a well maintained engine as to the catalytic converter. Amsoil has a guarantee with their oils if certain protocols are followed (all having been shown to help prevent LSPI). Cheap synthetics should work just fine but may not be made for extended intervals. We've ordered Amsoil for a Corvette but don't remember about BMW M3 now gone.

 

[sloinker]

Statistics...... Top Fuel Nitro teams use oils that have a good portion of ester in the mix. The highly polar nature allows an extra margin of protection between bearings and journals under G forces that starve these surfaces of fresh oil. After repeated rounds, race after race, a model can be formulated for parts life/dependability. It has shown there is a measurable difference in annual costs for replacement parts. This is an extreme example but I personally believe that a synthetic oil utilizing group IV/V and whatever carrier for the add pack is superior to off the shelf group II/III that are cheap and easily available. Is it quantifiable? Sample sizes on this board are too small. Maybe if you were a fleet manager and had half your fleet use, say... Ravenol and the Other half Supertech for an extended time period you could quantify whether there is any financial incentive of one over the other.

 

[kstanf150]

Again, that is why approvals matter. Porsche simulates I think 5 or 8hrs of track time on Nurburgring as one of the tests to issue A40 and C40 approvals. Numerous GrIII oils have this approval.
MB229.5 and MB229.51/52 are probably comprehensively most stringent approvals. Yet, no performance Redline has those approvals. Redline only claims that is is suitable. So, whether Redline produces less wear or not is up in the air.
Redline is discussed a lot among BMW M3 owners with S65 engine that is known for premature wear of rod bearings. No they do not last any longer on Redline than on Castrol, Motul etc. Some claim Redline does better job, but there is no any prof and Redline does not want to approve their oils, bcs. they would not be able to get any approval bcs. oxidation etc.

I keep seeing oxidation is a problem with Ester base fluids like Redline.
How does Redline compensate this in ATF ?
D6 ATF has a high percentage of Ester base in it makeup.
Thanks for the info

 

[TIJOCU]

2019 Accord Sport 2.0t
I don't find it funny, I think if I don't use the right oil the super the turbo will crap out some day and it will be a bazillion dollars to replace.

All of my experience with turbos has been with diesels, VW and GMs Duramax. I always cooled down the turbos after hard run about two minutes to maximize the life span (used Amsoil in those engines). It seems with gas turbo DI fuel diffusion into the oil is going to be your big problem. Why not have the Amsoil tested at 5000 miles to see how its holding up? Do the same with Red Line if you go back to it. Doing both might give the life span you need. An oil catch can might be helpful also.

 

[edyvw]

I keep seeing oxidation is a problem with Ester base fluids like Redline.
How does Redline compensate this in ATF ?
D6 ATF has a high percentage of Ester base in it makeup.
Thanks for the info

All of their performance series has high Ester content. I would say more frequent change. I have their gear fluid in my Toyota (TC and rear diff). I have D4 in my manual gearbox in BMW (works excellent). But, I will not push for interval change records.

 

[OilReport99]

as

I keep seeing oxidation is a problem with Ester base fluids like Redline.
How does Redline compensate this in ATF ?
D6 ATF has a high percentage of Ester base in it makeup.
Thanks for the info

Run any Redline product with confidence - they're great. Just be mindful of the OCI.

 

[kstanf150]

as

Run any Redline product with confidence - they're great. Just be mindful of the OCI.

Oh I do.....I’ve got redline products in everything that holds a fluid in my truck. PS, oil, trans and diff and transfer case

 

[OilReport99]

Oh I do.....I’ve got redline products in everything that holds a fluid in my truck. PS, oil, trans and diff and transfer case

Forgot brakes

 

[BlueOvalFitter]

Member JLTD sent me some 5W30 SS Amsoil he didn't want anymore (Thanks again JLTD). After my son did the Amsoil OCI's on his truck and mine, the engines started consuming the oil. Just recently I bought (2) boxes of Havoline Pro-DS 5W30 ($14.60 per 6 qt. box). My son did the Havoline OCI's. I have used this oil in the past without having any oil consumption issues.

 

[kstanf150]

Forgot brakes

Even use their fuel cleaner

If they’d only make some blinker fluid I’d be set for good

 

[Mark in NY]

I just got a Blackstone report back this week. Tried to upload the text instead of easy jpg and got fed up with the BS formating so....short and sweet
2017 Prius Prime that is never plugged in so essentially a std Prius hybrid.
15k miles on car.
Mobil1 0-20
10k miles on oil over a period of 22 months (!)
Oil no where near being depleted. TBN still at 3.9
I have been doing annual oil changes since 2000 when I did some experimenting and multiple Blackstone reports.
We have 3 Toyota hybrids in the family. Now I am considering routine 2 year oil changes with these tight, clean Toyota engines.
So to answer your question - No. Any major name brand oil that passes all the specs is just fine.
Cheers.

PS
zero oil consumption in 10k miles on the above, which is a routine observation that I have been seeing for several cars over the 20 years that I have been doing annual oil changes irrespective of mileage.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Forgot to mention, I like Amsoil because I often go well past the Honda MM OLM 0% when I don't have time to bring it to the dealer for an oil change ( when I was working ). I used to have lots of work schedule changes and get called in on days off. I would rack up crazy milage and it was nice to have a high-quality oil that was guaranteed for oil drain intervals far beyond what my Honda MM said was safe plus backed up by a guarantee ( and delivered to my door for the same price as other oil ).

 

[SailingWJ]

tldr: is premium oil really worth premium prices for a daily ricer?

In doing some searching on the forum none of the threads really help me understand if it's worth either brand, just that there's tons of addictive in Redline, and Amsoil isn't really worth it. And this thread: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/am-i-wasting-money-with-amsoil-schaeffers.332678/ kinda makes me think the verdict is still out on "worth".

My car has a turbo direct injection gasoline engine that's open port with an aluminum block. I drive regularly 90% of the time, and beat it somewhat hard 10%. I live in a part of the country that is cold more than hot (PA). In my engine I notice a difference if I use Redline and the highest octane Shell Gas.

Today I switched to Amsoil and it just ... I'm not impressed. I definetly feel a difference but it's not an improvement. The other thing is I hear quite often "oil is just oil, and it's not worth the price". Is that true? I really hammer this car sometimes and want it to last at least 5 years.

My recent response to Amsoil advocate on another site....who quoted per quart price of Pennzoil Ultra... and then compared Amsoil to Mobil 1's leaving deposits.... shell game...
This is used car salesman, or better yet mortgage broker, double talk! I order Pennzoil Ultra from Walmart or Amazon in 5 quart jug. It varies in price a little but I got it last (5w-30, wife's car) from Amazon for $24.97, free shipping with any item to take the order over $25. I also purchased (5w-20) from Walmart for my F-150 for the same amount $24.97, which included free shipping. I bought two as it IS more expensive by the quart, (the number quoted here), and I need 6 quarts for the truck, the remaining 4 quarts does my motorized small engines around the house, or applied to my next change, and or slight top off over the 7K miles. Tip... if you have this same situation... order the second 5 quart jug 5w-30, and use one quart of that with the recommended 5w-20... Mechanics often tell us the thinner oils are for CAFE gas mileage increases and a LITTLE thicker oil is better for wear... and the 5W-30 remaining works great in lawnmower, snow blower... generator etc....(I change once per year) Admittedly, Amsoil is the best oil on the market as any in-depth research will reveal, but in the case of Pennzoil Ultra it is by the the thinnest of margin... yet Amsoil will cost you double, or more with shipping, with no real world benefit! Gee the 700+ HP Hellcat is factory filled with Pennzoil Ultra... my engines don't produce anywhere near the internal pressure this would!! engines, with Pennzoilnecessary Statements like 4X the cleaning ability Amsoil has over some Synthetic can be true, but this too is misleading!!! The amounts that are being referenced, are so small they virtually have no effect of the operation of any engine or its longevity! In the past Fram oil filters were marginal at best... they now however make a Ultra Synthetic oil filter that rivals the best on the market for less than $10 at Walmart, and is rated for 20K miles... once again overkill, but all at a reasonable price... Total Oil change cost... under $35 dollars for the second best oil on the market, and a great filter....I could run 15K miles with confidence!! Like I always tell my kids.... when you are making a purchase... look at the bottom line.... Same Oil change with Amsoil will cost in the area of double the price, with no descendable advantage. Love you Amsoil....(although don't like the misleading arguments), but the competition now requires you lower your prices... I might come back if you do!

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

My recent response to Amsoil advocate on another site....who quoted per quart price of Pennzoil Ultra... and then compared Amsoil to Mobil 1's leaving deposits.... shell game...
This is used car salesman, or better yet mortgage broker, double talk! I order Pennzoil Ultra from Walmart or Amazon in 5 quart jug. It varies in price a little but I got it last (5w-30, wife's car) from Amazon for $24.97, free shipping with any item to take the order over $25. I also purchased (5w-20) from Walmart for my F-150 for the same amount $24.97, which included free shipping. I bought two as it IS more expensive by the quart, (the number quoted here), and I need 6 quarts for the truck, the remaining 4 quarts does my motorized small engines around the house, or applied to my next change, and or slight top off over the 7K miles. Tip... if you have this same situation... order the second 5 quart jug 5w-30, and use one quart of that with the recommended 5w-20... Mechanics often tell us the thinner oils are for CAFE gas mileage increases and a LITTLE thicker oil is better for wear... and the 5W-30 remaining works great in lawnmower, snow blower... generator etc....(I change once per year) Admittedly, Amsoil is the best oil on the market as any in-depth research will reveal, but in the case of Pennzoil Ultra it is by the the thinnest of margin... yet Amsoil will cost you double, or more with shipping, with no real world benefit! Gee the 700+ HP Hellcat is factory filled with Pennzoil Ultra... my engines don't produce anywhere near the internal pressure this would!! engines, with Pennzoilnecessary Statements like 4X the cleaning ability Amsoil has over some Synthetic can be true, but this too is misleading!!! The amounts that are being referenced, are so small they virtually have no effect of the operation of any engine or its longevity! In the past Fram oil filters were marginal at best... they now however make a Ultra Synthetic oil filter that rivals the best on the market for less than $10 at Walmart, and is rated for 20K miles... once again overkill, but all at a reasonable price... Total Oil change cost... under $35 dollars for the second best oil on the market, and a great filter....I could run 15K miles with confidence!! Like I always tell my kids.... when you are making a purchase... look at the bottom line.... Same Oil change with Amsoil will cost in the area of double the price, with no descendable advantage. Love you Amsoil....(although don't like the misleading arguments), but the competition now requires you lower your prices... I might come back if you do!

I have never seen anyone show me proof other than computer models that show CAFE oil gives real better MPG. I've tested this theory in my Duramax and the Corolla for better than 14 years now. Have to tell you I'm a total non-believer in that BS!

 

[ZedzAmg]

After seeing mobil 1, pennzoil, etc (on sale) for $32.99 per jug at a local store makes my amsoil orders look pretty thrifty.

 

[kschachn]

I have never seen anyone show me proof other than computer models that show CAFE oil gives real better MPG. I've tested this theory in my Duramax and the Corolla for better than 14 years now. Have to tell you I'm a total non-believer in that BS!

Of course it does. There’s no way on earth automakers would spend spend this amount of money developing those oils if they did not. Plus physics matters. Lower viscosity oils will improve fuel economy.

On the other hand given the much larger variances in fuel economy that occur in every day driving you will never see it. Ever.

 

[lawrencerd]

What I don't understand is why Amsoil fans always point to getting their oil delivered as a benefit, as if other types of oil cannot be delivered..?