Easy there JMH, you're projecting.
I just drove a Saturn Sky Redline
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JHZR2
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Last I checked, you were projecting with your ungrounded "in theory" ideas about the ecotec engines... and without any real data to back them up. I draw an equivalent "in theory" scenario, and I'm projecting? Whats the problem?
JMH
JMH
^^^ FWIW my new Cobalt 2.2 Ecotec with the auto tranny really gets up and goes on the on-ramps and got a little over 30 mpg combined driving. Seems like it's a hella good engine.
That's not Projecting. Projecting is when you assume others think like you have done.
As matter of fact, I have an Acura that has had it's automatic tranmission replaced under warranty and won't buy another one with AT until I'm convinced they have fixed the problem.
JHZR2
Staff member
project
from www.m-w.com
Main Entry: 2pro·ject
Pronunciation: pr&-'jekt
Function: verb
Etymology: Anglo-French projecter, from Latin projectus, past participle
transitive verb
2 : to throw or cast forward : THRUST
3 : to put or set forth : present for consideration
4 : to cause to jut out
7 : to display outwardly especially to an audience
8 : to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects
Seems to me that youre 'projecting' your thoughts on the engine without any real data or information otherwise regarding it, just stereotypes drawn from other GM engine families.
Its fine if you feel that way - youre more than free to go ahead. But at least label it in your opinion, or else state the reason/data youre using in making such judgements, for the good of the rest of us.
Sone of us (myself included) might have mistaken that you actually had something to useful to say and some good reasoning why the engine would likely be unreliable and short-lived when it is sold to the public. Alas, just extrpolation, ideas, stereotypes and no real information.
Thanks,
JMH
from www.m-w.com
Main Entry: 2pro·ject
Pronunciation: pr&-'jekt
Function: verb
Etymology: Anglo-French projecter, from Latin projectus, past participle
transitive verb
2 : to throw or cast forward : THRUST
3 : to put or set forth : present for consideration
4 : to cause to jut out
7 : to display outwardly especially to an audience
8 : to attribute (one's own ideas, feelings, or characteristics) to other people or to objects
Seems to me that youre 'projecting' your thoughts on the engine without any real data or information otherwise regarding it, just stereotypes drawn from other GM engine families.
Its fine if you feel that way - youre more than free to go ahead. But at least label it in your opinion, or else state the reason/data youre using in making such judgements, for the good of the rest of us.
Sone of us (myself included) might have mistaken that you actually had something to useful to say and some good reasoning why the engine would likely be unreliable and short-lived when it is sold to the public. Alas, just extrpolation, ideas, stereotypes and no real information.
Thanks,
JMH
I haven't heard of anyone with a PPC blowing up their turbo 2.0L Saab 93. The PPC makes the engine output about 260HP if I recall correctly.
I'm sure the second it does I'll know about it because there will be a long, drawn out, melodramatic thread about how the PPC destroys engines.
I'm sure the second it does I'll know about it because there will be a long, drawn out, melodramatic thread about how the PPC destroys engines.
JHZR2
Staff member
lol... you bet!
JMH
JMH
Everytime I ride in a GM, the phrase "close enough for government work" comes to mind with regards to overall quality.
It's amazing how you can always count on that sort of thread getting started whenever there's a problem, no matter how rare or unlikely..especially on a car forum.
For those with doubts about the Ecotec, maybe this will help:
"...the production engine was developed by an international team that included engineers from Opel's International Technical Development Center in Russelsheim, Germany; GM Powertrain in Pontiac, MI; and Saab in Trollhaten, Sweden."
SAE Tech Brief-Ecotec
"...the production engine was developed by an international team that included engineers from Opel's International Technical Development Center in Russelsheim, Germany; GM Powertrain in Pontiac, MI; and Saab in Trollhaten, Sweden."
SAE Tech Brief-Ecotec
The Sky is out, not the Sky Redline.
Saturn has a pricing sheet on their web site. The Sky Redline starts at just under $28k and goes up to about $32k.
Saturn has a pricing sheet on their web site. The Sky Redline starts at just under $28k and goes up to about $32k.
Not likely guys.
Saturn has picked-up on the new trend of loading overpriced options on this car.
As I said, non-Redline models over $32k.
Redline, I'll bet closer to $40k.
Scott
Saturn has picked-up on the new trend of loading overpriced options on this car.
As I said, non-Redline models over $32k.
Redline, I'll bet closer to $40k.
Scott
You can get a basic C6 Corvette for $44k, and basic is well equipped.
I'll buy the Corvette... No question there.
msnautos.com shows a base Red Line MSRP of $27,295, and $25,521 invoice. Not sure how accurate this is and how much options are.
Here is the pricing Saturn has on their web site.
Sky RedLine Price Sheet
When the Sky and Solstice first came out, GM pressured their dealers heavily not to inflate the prices. I'm sure the same will be true this time. GM has stated several times recently that they want their vehicles to be priced competitively and to provide a good value to the customer. I wouldn't expect to pay more than the list price.
Sky RedLine Price Sheet
When the Sky and Solstice first came out, GM pressured their dealers heavily not to inflate the prices. I'm sure the same will be true this time. GM has stated several times recently that they want their vehicles to be priced competitively and to provide a good value to the customer. I wouldn't expect to pay more than the list price.
Interesting how the Corvette(base) comes up as the car I would buy. I guess it has 4 wheels and 2 seats too.quote:
Originally posted by OriginHacker21:
I'll buy the Corvette... No question there.
It is not in the same class as this car at least in hardtop form. In convertible form the Corvette is too expensive.
People are not going to buy the Sky/Solstice for its performance. Its bought for the convertible top and price point and performance combo. The base engine will likely sold in bulk and a smaller subset desiring a little more kick get the turbo motors.
$28k is pushing it.... the vette is still the better buy.
and if you REALLY want the conv you can just buy the removable hard top for $750 or something like that, of course you can't do that if you live in new england where it will pour rain out of nowhere., on the west coast it would be much better.
performance was never an issue until it was pushed by saturn that it was 280hp, now performance becomes an issue and when you start getting to $30k the vette just looks a lot better.
I'm sure it's a fun little car to zip around in - like a Z3 or something.
right, the pontiac is smaller - but if talking about power/style the vette wins, especially when you talk about bang/buck. The convertible is ridiculously priced, I would actually pay more for a hardtop than a conv.... if something ever happened and you rolled over you would probably be decapitated, plus the hardtop looks nicer...
and if you REALLY want the conv you can just buy the removable hard top for $750 or something like that, of course you can't do that if you live in new england where it will pour rain out of nowhere., on the west coast it would be much better.
you're right, it's bought for it's looks and the fact that it's a convertible - why miatas sell.
performance was never an issue until it was pushed by saturn that it was 280hp, now performance becomes an issue and when you start getting to $30k the vette just looks a lot better.
I'm sure it's a fun little car to zip around in - like a Z3 or something.
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