Hellacious.
I just drove a Saturn Sky Redline
- Thread starter Matt_S
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I tried to cash your reality check, it bounced.
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Now I didn find this cheese company name a bit odd ..but seeing that it's been here for a long time ...I guess they get grandfathered rights to butchering the King's (or is it Queen's) Eng-rish.
JHZR2
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OK, since youre so enlightened, please cite what sources you have used to determine that the ecotec is bound to be such a terrible engine and have problems. Im not denying that a LOT of their V6 engines have had intake manifold issues, that their early 80's gas to diesel conversions were flops, etc., but how about sme real data (besides the instances that Brian cited) that say that the ecotec is in any way a poor engine.
Or is "fair and balanced" only fair and balanced when it agrees with what you say and accepts it without question?
Im not saying that it hasnt happened that GM puts lousy engines into vehicles - but so does toyota. All Im asking for is reason to believe that the ecotec is a potentially lousy engine, as you might be alluding to. As a (semi) ecotec engine owner, Im curious formy own good and my engine's longevity.
Thanks,
JMH
With GMs track record of releasing unreliable engines on the public, there is a good chance that their 260hp Ecotec will be problematic.
You seem to believe that if one version of an engine is good, all versions of that engine will be good. That's not how it works, particularly when there is a major power increase to the engine by a company famous for releasing beta version engines to the public.
*** is the Toyota connection?
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The Sky looks nice enough, but I hope the Redline will offer a better driving experience than the regular Sky -- which resembles the one you get in a Cavalier.
I'd look into it if GM's 6T70 or 6T75E 6-speed Automatic was an option. (Is it?)
Ecotec hasn't always received positive feedback. It has been criticized for mediocre fuel efficiency in smaller cars compared to the competition, as well as its noisy/coarse nature.
Ecotec hasn't always received positive feedback. It has been criticized for mediocre fuel efficiency in smaller cars compared to the competition, as well as its noisy/coarse nature.
What don't you like about the 5-speed auto that it comes with?
It's no "cheapo economy car"
The one I test-drove last weekend was not a redline, and cost (sticker) $32k.
That squarely falls outside of "cheapo"
Scott
The one I test-drove last weekend was not a redline, and cost (sticker) $32k.
That squarely falls outside of "cheapo"
Scott
JHZR2
Staff member
OK, so now we're getting somewhere. So you're saying that an engine with that power density, produced by GM, has a higher chance of being problematic, as compared to an engine with a similar power density produced by, say subaru or honda. Fair enough - if thats your experience, and thats what you believe, then that's fine.
For me, I know that there are plenty of saabs on the road running 210 hp 2.0L turbo ecotecs with no notable issues. Yes, 50 hp in an engne that size is a large amount... but its not like theyre going from 150 to 260. I never said that just because one version of an engine is good, theyre all good. To the contrary, you essentialy said that because one or some engine family(ies) made by one manufacturer is(are) bad, that they can all be assumed bad. Its fair for you to say that, but for me to not extrapolate from at least 210 hp ecotec engines?!?
As for the toyota connection, if I said that toyota made sludgemonster engines, and I would never buy a v6 toyota, because they have a high chance of being sludgemonsters if they come from that company, you'd likely defend toyota to no end. Similarly, if I said I'd never buy an AT honda, because they fail really early and given Honda's track record of making lousy ATs, chances are any that they make right now would likely be poor... you'd probably defend honda too, right?
fair and balanced only when you want it to be... is that accurate?
JMH
Too bad this fun topic has headed south.
Congrats on your test drive! I saw the sister car, the Solstice, while doing parking duty for a local fund raiser...man...that is a NICE car.
GM did it right!
Congrats on your test drive! I saw the sister car, the Solstice, while doing parking duty for a local fund raiser...man...that is a NICE car.
GM did it right!
That much power with an Auto trans! Driving the manual trans has got to be a wonderful experience to behold!
JHZR2
Staff member
Exactly... its about the car.quote:
Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
Too bad this fun topic has headed south.
Congrats on your test drive! I saw the sister car, the Solstice, while doing parking duty for a local fund raiser...man...that is a NICE car.
GM did it right!
Personally, I think I like the sky better than the solstice... but thats just my opinion. Is the sky shorter (i.e. more like a z3 or miata) as compared to the solstice?
One way or another, its great to see roadsters coming back! low on utility, but high on fun - make on really efficient, and you have a great commuter that anyone would be appy to carpool in!
JMH
My wife wants either a Sky or a Solstice next year (both car and van are paid off by then). My eyes just glaze over whenever she mentions that but I'm constantly reminded of the three motorsickles in the garage. She may get her wish after all...
i like the solstice quite a bit but i need a small back seat. perhaps not even a seat, but enough space to put a small bit of luggage.
the manual top is the only downside otherwise.
the manual top is the only downside otherwise.
I don't know about electrical gremlins and other misc. things like that, but the Ecotec Block and internals used in the Sky and Solstice are perhaps beyond bulletproof. GM has been campaigning several Ecotec drag cars in the import drag racing arena and thei'r using infor gained there in the production turbo Ecotecs. The drag ones have been dominating import drag racing. And in those motors, many many parts (short of rods and pistons) are factory stock. Yes, I am in fact praising GM (
) because I think they are at least approaching getting it right with these cars. They said they were going to be putting out a few other models with turbocharged engines (even V6s). We shall see.
Given that Ecotecs have been built up to over 1000 hp in drag cars and that GM has been expending a lot of resources in the aftermarket/modding area, I firmly believe this engine has the potential to do well, despite it's high specific output. This debate really is pointless at this time, though, since the engine hasn't even been released to the public. Time will certainly tell.
Regarding the top, I'd much prefer it to be manual. There's a lot less to go wrong that way. I've seen the mechanism for the automatic top on the Corvette and XLR and they're very complicated. With this top, you only have to open the trunk (which opens reverse, BTW), turn a handle and push it over your head. It's very easy.
Also, if I was buying one, it would certainly be a manual trans, although that automatic did perform nicely.
Regarding the top, I'd much prefer it to be manual. There's a lot less to go wrong that way. I've seen the mechanism for the automatic top on the Corvette and XLR and they're very complicated. With this top, you only have to open the trunk (which opens reverse, BTW), turn a handle and push it over your head. It's very easy.
Also, if I was buying one, it would certainly be a manual trans, although that automatic did perform nicely.
I've got the 04 2.2L Ecotec. (Pontiac Sunfire) Engine is REALLY nice and quiet... I've mistaken it to be off several times and turned the key when it was running (yes, it is quiet).
I beat a Scion TC in a 0-60 mph twice. Website rates them at 7.0 0-60mph.
I get 36+mpg on a daily 220 mile trip up and down the 210&15 freeways. I've gotten lowest of 35 and highest of 41mpg. Average speed - 72mph.
UOAs of this engine are scary. Might as well call it a VOA after 5,000 mile run.
I'm a happy customer of an Ecotec engine and I plan on taking it to 400,000+ miles.
I beat a Scion TC in a 0-60 mph twice. Website rates them at 7.0 0-60mph.
I get 36+mpg on a daily 220 mile trip up and down the 210&15 freeways. I've gotten lowest of 35 and highest of 41mpg. Average speed - 72mph.
UOAs of this engine are scary. Might as well call it a VOA after 5,000 mile run.
I'm a happy customer of an Ecotec engine and I plan on taking it to 400,000+ miles.
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