I hate to do this, but.. question about ARX rinse oil

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I recently bought a used '97 A4 1.8t (64k miles)

As everyone knows this beast needs some serious care. About 700mi ago, I changed the oil /filter with exxon superflo 5w30 and a bottle of ARX.

Wondering if it's beneficial for me to stick with a 5w30 dino oil for the rinse phase, or switch to mobil 1 0w40 and extend/double the rinse mileage? I'm worried about engine wear over the winter - as well as dino oil holding up in the engine in general. I'm in the northeast.

Thanks!
 
Maybe I should clarify why I'm asking this. I've been reading on this forum for the past year, so it's impossible that I haven't seen the recommendation for "dino" for the rinse phase.

While I understand that ARX works best with a dino rinse, I'm trying to make a decision on what is the healthiest solution for my engine.

Ive read a few of Terry's posts where he says things like this: "I disagree with Frank and the chemists in the oil used area too. I have seen through UOA testing ( after my work for Auto-Rx) that even a oil like Redline or any other heavily ester based oil did not negatively affect the cleaning that took place. I surmise that the organic esters in Auto-Rx are much more capable at attacking built up deposits than the synthetic type in all the motor oils you could procure off the shelf."

And in this thread:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=003267

Rick20 mentions synthetic as an inferior choice for rinse phase "unless your motor specifies full synthetic only... if yours does, run the rinse longer, 3000-3500 miles"

Now, if the B5 A4 and passat 1.8t engine isn't an engine that "specifies full synthetic only", I don't know what is...

just trying to get some advice thinking through my particular situation.

Thanks!
 
alchu,

My number one choice for any engine requiring synthetic oil for a clean and rinse is Shell Rotella T 5W40. That is for trying to stop a leak, heavily sludged, or over 100k.

How ever, if you are doing a routine clean and rinse and your engine requires an oil that needs to meet specs that the Shell 5W40 does not, use your favorite brand for the clean and run the rinse for 3-3.5K miles. This is a special circumstance, and running the engine hard to always heat it up will help. This is my observation.

I did this on my truck this summer. I had run the Auto-Rx clean over the winter, then in the spring I was going on a trip pulling my TT and I knew I would be pulling 19-20 PSI Turbo Boost and hitting over 1300 F Manifold EGT for miles on end up Hwy 7 and the Ozarks. So I used a mix of 8 quarts Delvac 1300S (dino) and 7 quarts of Delvac 1 (full synthetic) for a total of 15 quart capacity for the rinse. Now the engine was worked hard and long and temps were always on the upper edge of normal, but well below overheat, which is excellent for a clean or rinse. Here is the UOA of that mix:

Dino/Syn Brew
 
Shell 5W40 Synthetic is a Group III.
My Mobil Brew actually cost less that the Shell Syn. and I wanted to use what I had on hand. The only way I could get lower wear numbers on that engine is to park the truck.


smile.gif
 
Thank you. I picked up the Rotella T from walmart this weekend. I use this oil with the specified # of miles for each phase?
 
Who thinks dino oil in the 1.8 Turbo engine is an issue? Does a Group III oil "rinse" properly?
wink.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
Who thinks dino oil in the 1.8 Turbo engine is an issue?....

I ran 5w30 dino oil in my '00 VW GTI 1.8T for four consecutive oil changes. Beginning at 15,150 miles, my OCI's were approx. 6320, 6680, 4870, & 3000 miles, respectively.

Keep in mind that these were 90% easy highway miles. The dino oil didn't seem to be an issue with my VW.

When I finally switched to M1 0w40 at 36k miles, I looked intently under the valve cover, through the oil filler hole for any signs of sludge, etc.

Execpt for a little varnish on the portion of the valve cover that doesn't get any oil splash, the internals looked as clean as a whistle, & still do.
 
If you have a VW/Audi engine and want to use a VW/Audi approved oil for ARX rinse then you could look at Castrol Syntec (not Belgian or German Castrol) that meets specs.

They are good oils and their usefulness in this situation in directly related to what people complain about. They are Group III oils. They are good oils. Some people are upset because they feel the word synth is misapplied. Some just think the product is overpriced as a result. In any event if you are willing to pay Mobil 1 prices just for peace of mind that you are feeding the sludge monster a good enough oil then I see no downside to using a a similarly priced oil like Castrol Syntec that would be better for Auto-RX rinse.

I am no expert but the problem with running Mobil 1 in rinse is that the polar effects of the esters in ARX compete with the PAO oil.

I specifically asked Frank about about running Castrol Syntec as a rinse oil because I was doing rinse on a Porsche in the Winter and did not want to use a normal Dino.
 
The service life of the oil chosen is only 2000 miles in the rinse phase. I can't see the dino oil failing in 2000 miles. However, you can use a group III base stock for the rinse if you feel more comfortable.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Rich21:
The service life of the oil chosen is only 2000 miles in the rinse phase. I can't see the dino oil failing in 2000 miles. However, you can use a group III base stock for the rinse if you feel more comfortable.

It's not only that... maybe I'm making too big a deal of it, but I wanted to maintain an oil weight which was appropriate for the car in the northeast during the winter. That meant 0w40 or 5w40 oil, which is difficult to find in the plain jane dino oils... I wasn't sure if there was a consensus on the group III oils for arx rinses...
 
quote:

Originally posted by wavinwayne:

quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
Who thinks dino oil in the 1.8 Turbo engine is an issue?....

I ran 5w30 dino oil in my '00 VW GTI 1.8T for four consecutive oil changes. [...]

Execpt for a little varnish on the portion of the valve cover that doesn't get any oil splash, the internals looked as clean as a whistle, & still do.


Well, remember the engine in the b5 passat and a4 has a lower oil capacity than your MKIV GTI's transverse application, which leads to the sludge issue...
 
quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
wavinwayne, is this about Big Red -- or was it Little Red?
wink.gif
I wouldn't use dino oil in a tubo engine, but follow the carmaker's recommendation. I have actually never (apart from one ARX rinse) used any dino oil, not even in my first car, a used 1980 Scirocco, which got synthetic BP Strato back in the late '80s. That you drove easy highway miles helps explain why your engine did not suffer apparent consequences.


Yes, the dino was used in "Little Red". Back when I purchased the car in Nov. 2003, I didn't know squat about oil, had never changed oil myself, & had no idea what VW 502.00 was.

I purchased Little Red off a used car lot, & there was no owners manual in it. I later purchased a VW Golf owners manual from the VW dealer. It was then that I learned about the VW 502.00 "approval", "requirement", "suggestion", or whatever you want to call it.

After reading the owners manual about the oil that I should have been using, I purchased all of the materials needed to do the VW's oil changes myself.

It was in Oct. '04, that I started changing the VW's oil myself, using M1 0w40. After two runs of that, I switched to green GC for 2 more OCI's, & am now back to M1 0w40.

I had a UOA done on my second fill of M1 0w40, just to check for any funny business, after all that dino had been run through Little Red. The UOA showed almost no wear at all.
 
quote:

Originally posted by wavinwayne:

quote:

Originally posted by peterr:
If you have a VW/Audi engine and want to use a VW/Audi approved oil for ARX rinse then you could look at Castrol Syntec (not Belgian or German Castrol) that meets specs....

What am I missing? BC & GC are the ONLY Castrol Syntec oils that are VW approved.


The 5w30 is A1/A5 spec. Doesn't Audi say A1 is cool for use at regular drain intervals?

Admittedly I am not expert in Audi and VW recommendations but I was searching around audiworld recently as I am thinking about buying a late 90s A4 as my winter car.
 
quote:

Originally posted by alchu:

quote:

Originally posted by Rich21:
The service life of the oil chosen is only 2000 miles in the rinse phase. I can't see the dino oil failing in 2000 miles. However, you can use a group III base stock for the rinse if you feel more comfortable.

It's not only that... maybe I'm making too big a deal of it, but I wanted to maintain an oil weight which was appropriate for the car in the northeast during the winter. That meant 0w40 or 5w40 oil, which is difficult to find in the plain jane dino oils... I wasn't sure if there was a consensus on the group III oils for arx rinses...


The consensus? Group III is fine. Ask Frank.

I think you will find that a decent group III run for a short interval will clean better without risking your engine. The full syn has competing chemistry.

Castrol Syntec 5w30 seems to be a pretty thick 30 weight. I don't think its a bad choice for a short OCI in the northeast in Winter

edited to add clarity and context. I think you can get tied up in worrying whether the 5 or the 30 in a 5w30 are "low" or "high" enough numbers for your euro engine. The competing chemistry of a full synth is a much bigger deal in terms of impacting the efficacy of a rinse cycle.

I am currently doing a rinse on a Porsche 944 Turbo. I started with a 15w40 HDEO but since its getting cold I changed to a 5w30 Pennzoil Dino for the last few hundred miles. As soon as snow falls I am dumping the oil, adding full synth 0w40 and storing for the winter
 
quote:

The 5w30 is A1/A5 spec. Doesn't Audi say A1 is cool for use at regular drain intervals?

No!

quote:

Admittedly I am not expert in Audi and VW recommendations but I was searching around audiworld recently as I am thinking about buying a late 90s A4 as my winter car.

You didn't come across me there.
tongue.gif


PS: Unless you are mechanically skilled and have the nerves and the time to maintain the Audi and fix at least minor things yourself, don't get one (new or used).
 
quote:

Originally posted by moribundman:
PS: Unless you are mechanically skilled and have the nerves and the time to maintain the Audi and fix at least minor things yourself, don't get one (new or used).

and even then, think again. I do all of my work on my VW jetta vr6... no problems. The a4 1.8t? a nightmare. What other car requires a full hour (+!) for a "simple" air filter replace?
 
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