I dissected four (new) filters

[Padawan]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I'm having ADBV MATERIAL issues - Turning to gum and staying open on my last NISSAN. I know, I know! Cut it open and show

Not sure which filter you're running, but Jay at Fram noted recently that the Extra Guard will soon feature a silicone ADBV like the rest of their line-up.

 

[bullwinkle]

Biggest thing with the Extra Guards is-don't push them too far mileage wise, and certain ones are more prone to getting media distortion than others. If you keep it under 5K, and try not to short trip in winter too much (moisture is hard on any filter, but seems worse for the EG). the base Fram is a great filter.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

the O'Reilly MicroGard and Napa ProSelect look really good for their price-point.

 

[blupupher]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
the O'Reilly MicroGard and Napa ProSelect look really good for their price-point.

But as you know, they are the same filter (as is the SuperTech filter at Walmart and a few others).
These just have the not so popular (but adequate) combo valve.

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
Just to muddy the waters.

Fram extra guard filters are guaranteed for the change interval as specified in the owner's manual, just like all their other filters. People keep saying they are "rated" for 5,000 miles but the fram web site never says that exactly. If it were "rated for 5,000 miles" you would think they would have some test data that shows it is unlikely to survive for as long as an OEM filter. I doubt fram is going to admit they have this data.

Many owner's manuals specify a 15,000 mile FCI for the OEM filter.

Anyone want to try that with one of these filters?


Honda specs their Fram built filters for 15,000 miles (every other oil change @ 7,500 miles) so they seem to be confident in the abilities of these filters. Biggest difference is Honda is said to use a less efficient media and a silicone ADBV. The Extra Guard gets a silicone ADBV this fall. The Tough Guard and Ultra already have the silicone ADBV. Of course, capacity and efficiency also improve on the Tough Guard and Ultra.

Honda hasn't really ever done anything to make me question their competence regarding engine design, construction, and maintenance schedules.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: jim302


Honda specs their Fram built filters for 15,000 miles (every other oil change @ 7,500 miles) so they seem to be confident in the abilities of these filters.


Actually as much as 20,000 per more recent printing of the FSM for the 2005 Civic.

I’d rather take my chances with an Orange can than a RCOT (Red Can Of Tear)...

 

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: mazdamonky
Another one of these Fram cardboard endcap rumors. This is not true. No matter how many times you read it or someone else tells you they are cardboard, please do not claim they are cardboard until you call Fram yourself to ask for technical information. The end caps are made of filtering material. I am unsure if it is the same material as the pleats. Also, the Fram uses a synthetic blend filtering material rather than a cellulose meaning it is able to hold the same amount of contaminants with less material since it is capable of at least partial depth filtering. It also is in theory capable of the same flow with less filtering material due to the synthetic blend filtering media. On top of this, it is also rated for a much higher filtration efficiency as compared to the Napa and Microgard. It is your choice to believe in "alternative facts." I do not LOVE Fram, but they have a hard to beat price point for what they are in some cases and they have some of the beest filtering efficiency of any filter, especially for the money you pay. If someone else wants to come and do the same thing for cheaper then I will buy their filters also.


You maybe right, you maybe wrong but it is what it is, cheap and here is the proof.

Frams more expensive oil filters actually have METAL endcaps. So it tells you right there, Fram Extra Guard has cheap budget/profit making paper/cellulose/cardboard end caps no matter how you say it, its cheap.

The competition in this comparison has well constructed metal ends caps holding the filter material in place.
As far as the efficiency of the filter material itself, well, that is subjective, even more so if the cardboard end caps (and metal too) do not provide a good seal against bypassing, I would think the cardboard has a greater chance of distortion and so does Fram and they do not dare use cardboard in their more expensive filters. Even Frams own marketing suggests to use their more expensive non cardboard filters for long OCI engines.

Personally if your not a long OCI person, Fram will be fine with me but no need for me to buy it because all the good brands at the same cost and less use metal that will not degrade over time.

 

[blupupher]

The more you call it cardboard the more ignorant you make yourself sound and less valid your argument becomes.
It is a fiber material, made up of several components, cellulose being one of them.
If "paper" (cellulose is a fancy name for the same fibers that make up paper) is good enough for the media, then why is "cardboard" (again, cellulose fiber blended with not sure what, Fram has never said) bad for the end caps? Cardboard is stronger than paper last time I checked.

And I do agree it is a cost issue. If you can make a product that performs the same out of a cheaper (cost wise) material that performs the same as another more expensive material, then do it.

I still personally think that The Extra Guard is over priced for what it is. Tough Guard is a touch high, but not too bad, and the Ultra is right about where it should be.

 

[jim302]

Originally Posted By: alarmguy

Frams more expensive oil filters actually have METAL endcaps. So it tells you right there, Fram Extra Guard has cheap budget/profit making paper/cellulose/cardboard end caps no matter how you say it, its cheap.


The Ultra has metal end caps because of the wire backed fully synthetic filter media. Fiber end caps won't bond well to this surface which is not even, so they use a metal end cap which can hold more adhesive so that the end caps are properly sealed to the filter media.

Also, there's no evidence that the fiber end caps create sealing issues on the Extra Guard or Tough Guard. Quite the opposite in fact... look at a used filter and you can actually see how the leaf spring where the bypass is located will actually create an impression into the end caps which makes for a tight seal. Same for the ADBV which is wedged firmly against the end caps and can also leave an impression.

Is it substantially cheaper to make filters the way FRAM does? Hard to say to be honest. The construction looks cheaper but we don't know if the better than average filter media off sets any cost savings from the end cap design. But at least they don't have a multi year history of tearing filter media across their lineup. And they still use a more conventional bypass valve design than a rubber combo valve that can harden over time.

By the way: Toyota's Denso-made filters have no end caps and are regarded as a good design. I can't think of any cartridge filters that have metal end caps; they are usually plastic, sometimes just an adhesive bonding by itself, and other times no end caps at all.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: Padawan
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
I'm having ADBV MATERIAL issues - Turning to gum and staying open on my last NISSAN. I know, I know! Cut it open and show

Not sure which filter you're running, but Jay at Fram noted recently that the Extra Guard will soon feature a silicone ADBV like the rest of their line-up.


The "relaxed open" ADBV was with a Gonher Nissan Service replacement part with (supposed-its orange) Silicone ADBV and Castrol Magnatec SS 5w30 Oil. The Toughguard ( For Nissan Armada v8) used next has an Si adbv. Worked well on a newish Nissan 2.5L.

 

[MinamiKotaro]

I don't like the lack of media in some (most?) Frams. I don't buy the bit about "high efficiency so we need less".

 

[901Memphis]

The Ultra only uses metal end caps because microglass media has is very flexible which is why it has metal wire backing support and the wire support needs a deep well of adhesive to bond since the edges are not extremely straight like cellulose media is when you cut.

The fiber board end caps on the Fram actually provides a better seal against the metal bypass valve and anti drain back valves compared to the metal on metal of the other design.

The fiber actually gives slightly which helps make an impression in the seal area and does a good job usually.

The slight flexibility also helps keep the media from tearing like you see on the Purolators since it gives it room to move like we see when vehicles are short tripped and moisture quickly Distorts the media.

Personally I have moved to Fram Ultras exclusively although I have various other random filters in my stash.