Hypothetically, who makes a good 5w-20 for a modern, non-turbo engine?

[Best F100]

I don’t believe a lot of the above responses were very good answers to this hypothetical question. A whole lot of pontification and word salad and very little choices and reasons going on here today.

If you come from the belief that some of the better 5W20 motor oils you can use, are actually 5W30 oils (towing, desert heat scenario, mountain driving for example), here is my take:

1) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W20. Because it is a thicker 20wt oil. Viscosity @100C is 8.8. GLT base + an additive package designed for SRT engines (if you believe what Shell will tell you).

2) Schaeffer’s 9004 5W20. Viscosity @100C is 8.5-9.15. HTHS of 2.83. NOACK of 7.6. Near 30wt numbers, while still being a 5W20 motor oil.

That’s all. Keep it simple.

 

[TiGeo]

List all the benefits he will gain from not following the owners manual in this application.

I think you seem to have missed my deep sarcasm....of course the owner's manual is ok to use w/r to oil here.

 

[ATex7239]

The first rule of BITOG is.....the owner's manual and those that wrote it have no clue on what oil you should use.*

*except w/r to fuel type/ethanol content, on that subject they definately have it right.

I read in a manual from Estonia that engine can run on 87 or cabbage water. Might go with that next fill up.

 

[TiGeo]

I read in a manual from Estonia that engine can run on 87 or cabbage water. Might go with that next fill up.

Ummmm...cabbage water hahaha

 

[OVERKILL]

If you come from the belief that some of the better 5W20 motor oils you can use, are actually 5W30 oils (towing, desert heat scenario, mountain driving for example), here is my take:

You've lost me. A 5W-20 is a 5W-20, a 5W-30 is a 5W-30, unless a 5W-20 oxidatively thickens out of grade into 30 grade territory (and they typically go the other direction) that statement makes no sense

1) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W20. Because it is a thicker 20wt oil. Viscosity @100C is 8.8. GLT base + an additive package designed for SRT engines (if you believe what Shell will tell you).

And yet not a single SRT engine spec's an xW-20 The OG SRT oil was M1 0W-40, which has a full-SAPS Euro additive package and a Noack of 8.8%. It was replaced by the neutered (API RC levels of phosphorous) "SRT" 0W-40 with a Noack of >13%. I do not consider that an upgrade.

2) Schaeffer’s 9004 5W20. Viscosity @100C is 8.5-9.15. HTHS of 2.83. NOACK of 7.6. Near 30wt numbers, while still being a 5W20 motor oil.

That’s all. Keep it simple.

If we are paying Shaeffer's money, there's also:
- HPL PP 5W-20, 8.8cSt, 2.845 HTHS
- HPL NV 5W-20, 8.7cSt, 3.267 HTHS (Euro) - This one actually has an HTHS typical to an xW-30.

 

[dnewton3]

OP has stated that either PP or Edge are in play, but he wants to find something that is of "highest quality", yet not pay any more; that fiscal limitation pretty much rules out what he calls "premium" products (HPL, Amsoil, etc).

Q: what does his modern, 2.5L Toyota non-turbo engine need for his moderate use application with 5k OCI maintenance plan?
A: any inexpensive lube meeting the proper API and/or ISLAC spec

Q: what proof is there, that for any given brand specific product line, a 5w-20 is somehow inferior to a 0w-20 in moderate application and short OCI?
A: none

Q: what is of the "highest quality" (better than PP or Edge) but doesn't cost significantly more?
A: nothing


Summary:
- we can suggest lesser cost lubes which would well serve the engine, but they aren't in his considered choices
- we can suggest higher quality lubes above PP or Edge, but he doesn't want to pay for them

It's a catch-22 question; there is no correct answer. He's stuck between his stated cost limits and perceived quality perceptions.

 

[Best F100]

You've lost me. A 5W-20 is a 5W-20, a 5W-30 is a 5W-30, unless a 5W-20 oxidatively thickens out of grade into 30 grade territory (and they typically go the other direction) that statement makes no sense

And yet not a single SRT engine spec's an xW-20 The OG SRT oil was M1 0W-40, which has a full-SAPS Euro additive package and a Noack of 8.8%. It was replaced by the neutered (API RC levels of phosphorous) "SRT" 0W-40 with a Noack of >13%. I do not consider that an upgrade.

If we are paying Shaeffer's money, there's also:
- HPL PP 5W-20, 8.8cSt, 2.845 HTHS
- HPL NV 5W-20, 8.7cSt, 3.267 HTHS (Euro) - This one actually has an HTHS typical to an xW-30.

Alright, let me try not to lose some of you who know what I am saying, but just want to argue anyway. If you look at a chart that is what is commonly referred as a 20wt motor oil there is a viscosity range it can fall under.
Minimum 5.6cst@100C up to a maximum of 9.3 cst@100C. Anytime upwards of 9.3 and it’s considered 0W30, 5W30 or 10W30.

If the stated Toyota owner is looking for a 5W20 (for example warranty purposes) that is closer to what is considered a 5W30, those were my suggestions. Not a
5W20 is a 5W20 is a 5W20.

Now, if you call Pennzoil or Shell, they will tell you, like they told me, the following: The factory fill for SRT engines is/was Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W40. The additive package in the rest of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum viscosity is similar to that stated 0W40. NOT SRT engines spec a 20wt oil. I can’t explain it any simpler. Call them and let us know what they say.

 

[OVERKILL]

Alright, let me try not to lose some of you who know what I am saying, but just want to argue anyway. If you look at a chart that is what is commonly referred as a 20wt motor oil there is a viscosity range it can fall under.
Minimum 5.6cst@100C up to a maximum of 9.3 cst@100C. Anytime upwards of 9.3 and it’s considered 0W30, 5W30 or 10W30.

But it's still an xW-20 or xW-30, depending on where it falls on J300, lol. Maybe just say "a 5W-20 closer to the upper end of the range as defined by J300" rather than "some of the better 5W20 motor oils you can use, are actually 5W30 oils" which doesn't actually make sense. That's why we have J300.

If the stated Toyota owner is looking for a 5W20 (for example warranty purposes) that is closer to what is considered a 5W30, those were my suggestions. Not a
5W20 is a 5W20 is a 5W20.

So an oil whose KV100 falls near the upper end of the range. Probably better to just say that.

Now, if you call Pennzoil or Shell, they will tell you, like they told me, the following: The factory fill for SRT engines is/was Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 0W40. The additive package in the rest of Pennzoil Ultra Platinum viscosity is similar to that stated 0W40. NOT SRT engines spec a 20wt oil. I can’t explain it any simpler. Call them and let us know what they say.

Or, worded differently, the additive package in the SRT 0W-40 is similar to that found in the rest of the Pennzoil Ultra Platinum lineup. See how that works when you spin it around?

The factory fill for Corvette was M1 5W-30. The additive package for the rest of the Mobil 1 PCMO lineup was similar. Are we to infer there is something special about the additive package based on this? Obviously that's what the person you talked to hoped you would infer from their statement.

As the owner of several SRT vehicles, I've yet to see anything impressive about the SRT 0W-40, which is why I don't use it, continuing to use the original SRT-spec oil, which is a full-SAPS Euro 0W-40. It (the SRT oil) has lower levels of AW additives, higher volatility (Noack) and is prone to shear.

 

[Gawardawg]

My F150 calls for 5w20. It's the 3.3 n/a engine . I was searching just like you. Very similar traveling like yourself. I picked Pennzoil Platinum . Just because. But any at Wal-Mart is good to go. I change it 4000-5000 miles . Just because I can WarDawg

 

[BrendanC]

valvoline high mileage 5w-20 full synthetic would get my vote. long time valvoline user that just switched to HPL.

 

[4WD]

View attachment 195561
The highlighted section on the MSDS of the 0W-20 alludes to the esters.

Mostly Grp3 & Grp4

 

[4WD]

OP left the building early on …

 

[mr_boring]

The first rule of BITOG is.....the owner's manual and those that wrote it have no clue on what oil you should use.*

*except w/r to fuel type/ethanol content, on that subject they definately have it right.

lol

"it says right there in the owners manual that 87 octane is ok but they RECOMMEND premium so I run 93 AND octane booster" - everyone on F150 forums.........

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

lol

"it says right there in the owners manual that 87 octane is ok but they RECOMMEND premium so I run 93 AND octane booster" - everyone on F150 forums.........

You think you telling a funny, but it’s been proven on the dyno that even though the 3.5EB will run just fine on 87 octane, that filling the tank up with 93 long enough for the octane sensor to register, will result in an additional 20+ RWHP.

Ford knows the added octane is optimal, but also knows most truck owners are looking for low cost. That’s why I got an E30 tune and run it frequently- not only does HP jump from the ~320rwhp level to just over 500, but the last time I filled up with E85 at Casey’s I paid $1.64/gal when 87 was $2.67. The ~12-15% mileage loss is a small price to pay for those tradeoffs IMO.

 

[TiGeo]

lol

"it says right there in the owners manual that 87 octane is ok but they RECOMMEND premium so I run 93 AND octane booster" - everyone on F150 forums.........

Also VW MK7 forums.

 

[TiGeo]

You think you telling a funny, but it’s been proven on the dyno that even though the 3.5EB will run just fine on 87 octane, that filling the tank up with 93 long enough for the octane sensor to register, will result in an additional 20+ RWHP.

Ford knows the added octane is optimal, but also knows most truck owners are looking for low cost. That’s why I got an E30 tune and run it frequently- not only does HP jump from the ~320rwhp level to just over 500, but the last time I filled up with E85 at Casey’s I paid $1.64/gal when 87 was $2.67. The ~12-15% mileage loss is a small price to pay for those tradeoffs IMO.

Octane sensor? Do you mean flex fuel sensor?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Octane sensor? Do you mean flex fuel sensor?

Nah, I meant knock sensor. Tired and distracted.

Flex fuel sensor will “level out” on regular pump fuel pretty quickly because there’s not much E0 around here in corn country.

 

[TiGeo]

Nah, I meant knock sensor. Tired and distracted.

Flex fuel sensor will “level out” on regular pump fuel pretty quickly because there’s not much E0 around here in corn country.

Ok that makes more sense then.

 

[4WD]

lol

"it says right there in the owners manual that 87 octane is ok but they RECOMMEND premium so I run 93 AND octane booster" - everyone on F150 forums.........

Think it’s always been legit to hear what the same motor uses in Oz …
We might be closer to those temps than Minnesota …

 

[odie]

I don’t believe a lot of the above responses were very good answers to this hypothetical question. A whole lot of pontification and word salad and very little choices and reasons going on here today.

If you come from the belief that some of the better 5W20 motor oils you can use, are actually 5W30 oils (towing, desert heat scenario, mountain driving for example), here is my take:

1) Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W20. Because it is a thicker 20wt oil. Viscosity @100C is 8.8. GLT base + an additive package designed for SRT engines (if you believe what Shell will tell you).

2) Schaeffer’s 9004 5W20. Viscosity @100C is 8.5-9.15. HTHS of 2.83. NOACK of 7.6. Near 30wt numbers, while still being a 5W20 motor oil.

That’s all. Keep it simple.

P.U.P. 5w-20 for all . The V.O.A. for the ULTRA 5w-20 . VIDEO is 3 years old , but likely applies to this time . Plan to get this in the spring for next O.C. of the '18 ACCENT w/ G.D.I. . Hope there's a rebate by then . Did use Ultra 5w-20 once ( picture below ) .

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/voa-on-pp-and-pup-5w-20.355617/ . Picture below is from the video .