HYPER low mi/short trips: conventional or synth?

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
Originally Posted By: mazdamonky
If the manual says conventional is good for one year,

A maximum of one year (or 7500mi, whichever is first). This implies to me that they want you to change it more often than that (although it doesn't say how much more often). That's one of the reasons I'm leaning towards six months.

Why stop at six months? If changing every six months is better, then changing every month or every week should be better yet.

Like I said earlier, do what helps you sleep better at night. You can't put a price on that. BITOG is an OCD heaven.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Now you completely lost me.


I think he means the arrows on the oil selection chart in his owner's manual only go that high for the -30 and the -40. Which is what I was getting at with my comment about those charts and being more or less useless.

If of course that is what he means.


Well yes, that chart and several others like it I've seen in other places. They indicate that 5w-30 is good from about the -20sF to about mid 80sF and that 5w-40 is for slightly warmer situations at -10sF through 100F. Other things I've read also appear to indicate/reinforce that the heavier weight oils are meant for warmer conditions. Again though, I fully admit I don't understand this as well as I probably should, and that I could be reading these charts wrong. The manual said I can swap to synth 0w-30 or 0w-40, I'm assuming that the -40 version performs better in hotter weather and that that's more appropriate for my climate.

Here, let me reword the issue another way and maybe that'll make things easier:
It's usually down into the low teens F in the winter here (sometimes below 0) and often gets up to 90+F in the summer. Given that, and given the rest of my issue, assuming I go with synth, would 0w-30 or 0w-40 be more appropriate, or does it even matter?

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
Here, let me reword the issue another way and maybe that'll make things easier:
It's usually down into the low teens F in the winter here (sometimes below 0) and often gets up to 90+F in the summer. Given that, and given the rest of my issue, assuming I go with synth, would 0w-30 or 0w-40 be more appropriate, or does it even matter?

Also bear in mind that basically all my starts effectively count as cold starts since my trips aren't usually long enough to let the engine warm up properly.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Why stop at six months? If changing every six months is better, then changing every month or every week should be better yet.

I'm trying to have SOME balance between cost and sanity here

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Quartz

Also bear in mind that basically all my starts effectively count as cold starts since my trips aren't usually long enough to let the engine warm up properly.


Then why are you worrying about XXw30 vs XXw40?

 

[Quartz]

Because once in a blue moon I sometimes do take long trips or end up idling in traffic in the summer, and I'd rather not fry my engine doing it.

I don't have any emotional attachment to any particular kind of oil, I just want to use whatever is best for my situation, especially since they sell for about the same price and there's no real tradeoff.

 

[KitaCam]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
I just want to use whatever is best for my situation, especially since they sell for about the same price and there's no real trade-off.



There is no "best" oil in your situation (same as mine BTW)....ANY name brand oil in the spec'd weight range is as good as another if changed every 6 months....

So if you're changing your own oil get what's convenient...Kitacamry is spec'd for conventional, but synthetic has been cheaper...$2/qt @ AZ each year...even without a rebate. To answer your thread title question, if changed at the dealer 2x/yr, go with conventional rather than synthetic, period.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
I don't have any emotional attachment to any particular kind of oil, I just want to use whatever is best for my situation, especially since they sell for about the same price and there's no real tradeoff.


There is a trade off. The 0w-40 may not flow as well as the 0w-30 at very low starting temps.

Analysis paralysis...

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
Because once in a blue moon I sometimes do take long trips or end up idling in traffic in the summer, and I'd rather not fry my engine doing it.


You are a perfect example of a person that gained little knowledge about a subject, oil in this case, not enough to be useful, but enough to be dangerous. The dangerous part is that you are thinking that if you use one oil vs. another, it will either destroy the engine or make it live forever. None of which is true.

What people are trying to tell you is that either oil type, conventional or synthetic, or oil grade XXw30 or XXw40 will not cause any damage to the engine. You are reading things you do not understand and are drawing the wrong conclusions.

The manual tells you that a XXw30 oil is good for around 85F. Great, but it does not mean the engine will be destroyed when the temperatures reach 100F. The chart is meant to cover a very broad type of usage. Anything form high speed highway travel, towing, climbing hilly terrain to putting around town and 2k RPM. A XXw30 oil may not be optimal for summer in your Volvo, but at the same time will not damage the engine given your usage patterns.

And taking the car for a little highway trip or being stuck in traffic does not constitute as being hard on oil.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The dangerous part is that you are thinking that if you use one oil vs. another, it will either destroy the engine or make it live forever.

When I say things like "fry my engine" I'm obviously exaggerating. I know any one of them will work, what I'm trying to figure out is which will cause me the least amount of trouble years down the line, ie; which will be most likely to postpone engine trouble for the longest time.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Quartz

When I say things like "fry my engine" I'm obviously exaggerating. I know any one of them will work, what I'm trying to figure out is which will cause me the least amount of trouble years down the line, ie; which will be most likely to postpone engine trouble for the longest time.


Having 36 posts to this point, "obviously exaggerating" doesn't apply; We have no idea where your thought process is. If you use any of the specified oils for the allotted time, you will have no issues directly attributed to the oil. ZERO. And any issue that does creep up, could have happened with any of the oils you won't use. Except for possibly varnish where synthetic vs conventional is concerned.

We've all been there.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Having 36 posts to this point, "obviously exaggerating" doesn't apply

Ok fair enough

Honestly though I'm probably not going to stretch this thread out too much longer anyway.

Originally Posted By: wemay
We have no idea where your thought process is.

Maybe I can try to clear it up some (maybe).

- I have a weird driving pattern that's rather sub-optimal for a gas engine, and has a fair chance of causing premature wear.

- I'd like to try to counteract that somewhat by choosing an oil type that is as closely matched to my needs as possible (given that all oils are about the same price, I don't see a downside to doing this besides wasting some time doing research).

- I understand that there are no absolutes when it comes to choice of oil and that any of them will work more or less the same for me, but I feel like there are probably more optimal choices for my situation than the default 5w-30 conventional as specd in the manual.

- Most of the responses to this thread were favoring synthetic, so that's what I'm looking at.

- A few people mentioned that I might qualify for extreme/severe use. My manual recommends synth 0w-30 or 0w-40 in that situation. I'm not heart set on either of these, but again, given that all oils are about the same price, I assumed that these are better quality comparatively and I might as well go with them.

- My (limited and likely incorrect) understanding of oil suggested that the 0w-40 would be a better choice for me given average summer temperatures. I'm not heart set on this either, I was hoping someone else could chime in here with more info and tell me if I'm on the right track.

Anyway, the only new wrench in the works is that I called up my mechanic and talked for a bit about this thread and the other stuff I've read. He said he strongly recommends against 0w-xx in my case as he thinks it'll be too thin at startup for me, and would prefer I use 5w-xx (synth).

 

[TheOnlySarge]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
(The full title of this post is supposed to be "ULTRA HYPER low mileage + short-trips car: should I use conventional or synthetic oil? Does it matter?" but I can't fit all that in the subject line)

I live in a northern state area with zero public transportation, so I need a car. However, I work from home and don't get out much, so I hardly ever drive: typically about ten miles a month and only a couple hundred miles per year. Most of what I use the car for are weekly trips to the grocery store (~2 miles round trip) and a random short errand or two, although I do occasionally go out to visit a friend or relative a few times a year (15-60 miles round trip). My car's engine is an i5 with factory low pressure turbo. Manual says conventional oil and that it should be changed at least once a year, I've been changing both the oil and filter every six months. My car lives in a garage complex if it makes any difference.

I know short trips (especially in the winter) don't let the engine warm up enough and that can lead to condensation-induced acid and sludge buildup, but I'm not sure if the extra additives in synthetic do anything about that. I can't seem to find any information except that synthetics are supposed to have a higher TBN and that that's supposed to indicate acid-fighting ability, but I'm not sure if that applies to my use case. I've swapped back and forth between conventional and synthetic oil based on different recommendations from different dealers, relatives, and my mechanic.... but I'd like to get a real answer if possible.

Thoughts?


Sorry but I didnt read everybodys responses so please forgive me if I repeat......
I own many classic cars and some not so classic vehicles I maintain around here.

For the cars that stay stored/covered and only driven a few miles a month (or less) I follow these rules. Have never had any issue......
1. Battery tender on each car.
2. High Mileage oil in each car for the seal conditioner aspect of the HM Oil. I also replace 1 quart of the oil with 1 qt of Marvel Mystery Oil. I use Kendall 10-30 High Mileage oil in most of them. I change the oil/filters every 12 months.
3. StaBil and TCW3 in the gas.
4. I keep the tires air pressure on the maximum recommended pressure per the manufacturer.
5. I absolutely keep mice/rat poison out in the shop where the cars are! No mice/rats in my shop!
6. I change the transmission and rear end lubes every 24-36 months regardless of mileage.
7. I flush and refill the coolant systems every 18-24 months.

Basically I try and drive each one at least once a month about 20 miles or so. Get all the fluids up to operating temps for a bit. Keep the tires round

All of them fire right up with no issue and run great. I do keep the gas tanks full at all times.

 

[raytseng]

Evaluate how much extra synthetic is going to cost you in actual dollars versus your sanity.

There is NO downside to the synthetic other than the cost. The amount of that cost should be taken into consideration, and if you shop around it's NOT THAT MUCH, compared to your brainpower spent on this issue.

It seems you should just use synthetic even if you're because you're obsessing over a couple dollars of difference while you're throwing away $10s and $100s of dollars elsewhere or in the overall ownership cost of the car.

What's going to happen is every mile of the OilChange on conv., you're going to second guess yourself, and you'll end up dumping it at 4months.

So go with your gut feeling, because the brain is saying it shouldn't matter and there's no downside other than cost; but your gut is going to give you ulcers and you'll pay in health for trying to pinch this penny.

If you want to Spend your brainpower on something, use it to look for an oil change special on synthetic.

The flipside is if you're upholding the Principle of not wasting money. It would drive some folks insane that they wasted $9 extra for synthetic instead of saving it, so I would recommend those folks to go with their gut and pick the conventional so they don't wake up in sweats in the middle of the night.

But you don't fall in this camp, as from the other services you're doing and listed, you aren't obsessing over saving $9.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quartz


Anyway, the only new wrench in the works is that I called up my mechanic and talked for a bit about this thread and the other stuff I've read. He said he strongly recommends against 0w-xx in my case as he thinks it'll be too thin at startup for me, and would prefer I use 5w-xx (synth).

LOL, here we go again with mechanics showing their lack of basic knowledge about what oil grades really mean.

You should have probably just asked your mechanic to begin with and spared BITOG this lengthy thread.

 

[cmhj]

Something so simple, yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[kschachn]

...

 

[SR5]

The biggest danger to your oil is boredom. Do whatever makes you feel most relaxed, all the options given should work much the same.

If you still can't decide, then write the below lines on separate pieces of paper, fold in half and select one at random out of a hat.

5W-30 mineral at 6 months
5W-30 mineral at 12 months
0W-40 synthetic at 6 months
0W-40 synthetic at 12 months
0W-30 synthetic at 6 months
0W-30 synthetic at 12 months
Etc...

All oils should have enough TBN to stop any acid build up.
All oils should handle your hottest days easily.

 

[Quartz]

Oh I readily admit he's not exactly the smartest guy on earth- he knows nuts and bolts... physics and chemistry not so much. I've gotten into more than one argument with him over stupid [censored] (for example, he thinks drum brakes are better than disc because drums have a larger shoe and therefore more grip. dafuq?) I go to him because he's one of the precious few mechanics who's honest and not out to screw anyone over.

I mentioned that just to see what everyone else's thoughts on it were. To be clear, his concern (valid or not) is that 1) he doesn't agree with volvo and thinks a 0w- is a bad choice for this engine and it won't provide enough protection in the early stages of startup, which I'm going to be doing a lot. 2) being a thin synthetic with associated detergents, it's more likely to start leaks in a 9 year old car, and 3) I'm not cold cranking in the arctic or doing a lot of hard runs in the summer and therefore buying a 0w-30 or -40 is a waste since I'm not really going to use it's advanced capabilities.

Again though, I probably understand less about all this than he does, so I wanted to run the statement by everyone else before I make any decisions.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: SR5
all the options given should work much the same.

Yeah I know. I admit I'm basically micromanaging here, but I still feel like one of these has to be at least a little better than the others for my use case.

Originally Posted By: SR5
6 months, 12 months

I'm pretty set on six months I think. The books and some things others have written here make me nervous about going a year. The choice I'm considering is between synth 5w-30 (what my mechanic feels is right), or synth 0w-30/40.