HYPER low mi/short trips: conventional or synth?

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Worrying about a synthetic in a turbo if your trips don't exceed a couple miles isn't necessary. Your oil won't even be at operating temperature, much less a temperature that's going to cause it any degradation.


Absolutely! The only reason we've used mostly synthetic in the Santa Fe Turbo is because of the ridiculously low (below conventional) synthetic oil prices during the end-of-year-clearances. My wife's office is only six miles away, and in heavy morning traffic, no Hwy. Hyundai's Severe Svc schedule calls for OCI every 3K miles. I've used Mobil Delvac 15W40 when not going the synthetic route. In past turbos, I used them all as well, syn/conv/blend...never an issue.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
Popping the oil cap doesn't tell me anything I can understand. There's some sort of metal disk with vents in it about an inch down into the hole (which I guess to to prevent idiots from dropping things in there?) but I can't figure out how to get it out. I can't really see through it, but the area above it is completely clean of pretty much anything.



Flip the cap over, to see what is on the cap (the side facing into the engine). Moisture likes to form a milk-like substance there, if there is an actual issue.

 

[DS9]

Originally Posted By: Quartz


. I can't seem to find any information except that synthetics are supposed to have a higher TBN and that that's supposed to indicate acid-fighting ability, but I'm not sure if that applies to my use case. I've swapped back and forth between conventional and synthetic oil based on different recommendations from different dealers, relatives, and my mechanic.... but I'd like to get a real answer if possible.

Thoughts?


Synthetics (high/top quality oils) does not necessaraly means oils with high TBN (because rate of TBN depletion depends on oil composition, and also on sulphur concentration in a fuel used).

Some excellent points here
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2491103

Classic paper from mid-90's
http://www.oil-lab.com/downloads/TBN-1.pdf

***

Anyway, stay with recommended viscosities by Volvo - for climate in your area.

Volvo oil recomendetaions (USA and Canada) for gasoline engine 5 cyl. - 2005.
http://new.volvocars.com/ownersdocs/2005/2005_S40/05s40_12a.htm#pg187


Hint

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/6BD5DE4872AB5E8B80257E7D006877B9/$File/BPXE-9C77UN.pdf

or use oil selector (and choose M1)
https://mobiloil.com/en/product-selector

 

[69GTX]

I agree that with synthetics on sale during the year, there's no reason to use anything else.

Because of your short-tripping I'd do it 2X per year. My 2nd car only gets driven 1250 miles per year. All the trips are 12-15 miles or more. So annual oil change on synthetics (cost of $20 total includes Fram Ultra Guard filter). If the car was short-tripped I'd change it 2X per year. The resale value of your car, which is heavily dependent on engine health, is the most important part of this equation. An extra $20/yr one way or another should not be a factor. Your car is probably very low miles. And keeping it like new should be a priority...including the engine.

 

[Quartz]

There's nothing on the underside of the cap (except a thin film of oil)

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
The resale value of your car


TBH, the resale value doesn't matter much to me. I tend to buy cars and keep them until they die. My last car was 16 years old when I traded it in (and I only really did so because the repair shops didn't want to work on it). With the exception of a handful of Toyotas and Hondas, there are few cars out there that will maintain any real resale value that long.

The main thing I care about is that the car is in good health and I don't get stranded some day or end up hemorrhaging money keeping it on life support.

 

[Quartz]

So it's looking like 2 to 1 in favor of synthetic. (I was hoping everyone said the exactly same thing but I guess that's good enough

Anyone else have thoughts about the particular weight? If I were to change it twice a year, which two weights should I swap between?

 

[Garak]

There's no reason to swap viscosities between season, particularly if you're using a synthetic. Choose a suitable 0w-XX or 5w-XX and stick with it all year.

 

[Quartz]

I was under the impression that the wider the "range" on the oil the more expensive it was and that swapping between two "narrower" versions (like 0w-30 vs 5w-40) would be slightly cheaper year over year. Although honestly I don't even know where to buy these days, or what prices are good.

The more I think about it, the more I think I agree with BrocLuno et al in that running a 0w-xx (especially in the winter) would be better given that effectively all my engine starts are cold starts. On paper I think xx-30's aren't technically supposed to be suitable for summer here since they only go up to like 85F whereas it can get up in the 90's sometimes (although I'm pretty sure I've been using xx-30's for years and it's never created I problem I was aware of). I mean, running a 0w-40 year round sounds like it should be perfect, but I don't want to be lazy and settle on that without asking first.

Ugh.... I wish there was a way you could pop open the engine like a lid and just see what the heck it looked like in there, then I'd know for sure what to do....

 

[Garak]

You won't notice a lot of difference in prices these days. M1 0w-40 is likely to be the same price as M1 10w-30 in the same size container on the same shelf. I'm not exactly sure of your application, so it's really hard to nail down a concrete recommendation, but there really is no need to be switching oil viscosities by seasons. We have multigrades for a reason, and the ones we have now are better than ever. If you're spending on a synthetic, the reasons for seasonal switches are even more shaky. Assuming a 40 grade (or 30) is suitable for your engine, it will be suitable all year, if you choose the correct number before the "w" for your ambient temperatures.

In my G37, I used 5w-40 year round. Before that, I used Pennzoil 5w-30 year round. I have not done seasonal viscosity switches based upon climate and ambients alone, ever, at least in a gasser. There were some ill fated experiments in the old Audi (a year round viscosity proved far less problematic), and in the F-150 before the rebuild, I ran 15w-40 in the summer and MaxLife 5w-30 in the winter, but that was to control leaking, fuel dilution, and costs as best as I could until rebuild time; 5w-30 year round was my preference.

Realistically, with your examples of 0w-30 and 5w-40, assuming those viscosities are suitable for one's engine (i.e. a 30 is fine, or a 40 is fine), then they would be suitable year round choices, since a 5w-XX and 0w-XX will handle the coldest conditions likely to be encountered.

 

[Quartz]

Ok, fair enough. I'm pretty out of the loop so I know I'm working off old info. I guess 0w-40 sounds like the best bet. Thanks.

 

[circuitsmith]

This is the kind of driving condition a plug in hybrid would excel in.

 

[Quartz]

In theory yes, but in practice the hybrid would be much more expensive to own in the long run. I'd never make back the initial price jump since I'm not really buying hardly any gas in the first place.

 

[bigt61]

If you use M1 OW-40, I'd change every 5 years or at 5k miles if that happens first after a few years. Don't make any special trips just to warm up oil, that's crazy.

 

[KrisZ]

The car can be there to serve you or you can serve your car, the choice is yours.
Follow the manual, or keep doing what you're doing now and stop worrying about it.
Synthetics are for application that really stress the oil mainly through high operating temperatures. Your regimen does not put that kind of stress on the oil.

The fuel and moisture buildup can only be dealt with one way, by changing the oil. There is no documentation that proves synthetics better deal with viscosity loss due to fuel and moisture. Both conventionals and synthetics are equally affected by it.

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: bigt61
If you use M1 OW-40, I'd change every 5 years or at 5k miles if that happens first after a few years. Don't make any special trips just to warm up oil, that's crazy.


Eeek. Five years?? I don't trust that. And 5k miles at my rate would be even longer.

 

[cmhj]

Whatever the manual says

 

[Quartz]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The car can be there to serve you or you can serve your car, the choice is yours.

It's kind of both in my case. I can't get by without one, but I realize that my use case isn't what gas engines were designed for so I have to make some sacrifices vis-à-vis maintenance.


Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The fuel and moisture buildup can only be dealt with one way, by changing the oil. There is no documentation that proves synthetics better deal with viscosity loss due to fuel and moisture. Both conventionals and synthetics are equally affected by it.

I'm not worried about viscosity loss, I'm worried about condensation from short trips resulting in acid buildup causing corrosion.... although there seems to be mixed feelings here as to whether synthetics fight that better.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
The fuel and moisture buildup can only be dealt with one way, by changing the oil. There is no documentation that proves synthetics better deal with viscosity loss due to fuel and moisture. Both conventionals and synthetics are equally affected by it.

Agreed.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quartz
I live in a northern state area

What are the lowest temps that you experience at which the engine will be started? If it's really cold, like below 0F, you might benefit from a 0w-XX oil, which essentially means synthetic, or at least synthetic blend. Otherwise, a mineral 5w-30 would probably work just fine, and change it once a year. Alternatively, change it every 6 months, not because the car needs it, but because it might help you sleep better at night.

At the rate you're going, your car will die of a number of other issues such as electrical or rust, rather than of engine lubrication problem.

Quote:

My car's engine is an i5 with factory low pressure turbo.

Is this some kind of a secret, or can you provide year/make/model for us? If you provided it earlier, my apologies.

Thanks!