Can someone explain how a oil formulated for diesel engines works in a motorcycle designed for wet-clutch operation? I've always used Mobil 1 racing 4T, which is increasingly more expensive now. I've heard and read about Shell Rotella working in motorcycles?
Hype behind Shell Rotella T6?
- Thread starter EMT_760
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T6 and T4 are both rated Jaso MA/MA2, and I've used both without issue in my 1982 Kawasaki. However I recently switched to Valvoline Motorcycle 4-Stroke (also MA2) and am happier with it for shifting consistency. (SL 10W-40)
I read somewhere that Diesel oils are not exactly the best for gasoline engines, but for the life of me, can't seem to find that article.
I do know from experience that too much Moly and Zinc, like in a lot of old racing oils, will simply render a Harley clutch pack useless.
It also appears that the heavy duty Allison Transmission uses a wet clutch setup lubricated by these motor oils. So it seems that the Allison spec will meet the MA/MA2 spec as well.
Understand that these statements are from personal experience and not based on any technical specifications of the respective motor oils.
I read somewhere that Diesel oils are not exactly the best for gasoline engines, but for the life of me, can't seem to find that article.
I do know from experience that too much Moly and Zinc, like in a lot of old racing oils, will simply render a Harley clutch pack useless.
It also appears that the heavy duty Allison Transmission uses a wet clutch setup lubricated by these motor oils. So it seems that the Allison spec will meet the MA/MA2 spec as well.
Understand that these statements are from personal experience and not based on any technical specifications of the respective motor oils.
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Rotella T6 5w40:
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
T6 15w40:
API, CK-4, CJ-4, ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, MA/MA 2; Caterpillar ECF-2, ECF-3; Cummins CES 20086; DDC DFS 93K222; MB-Approval 228.31; Volvo VDS-4.5; Ford WSS-M2C171-F1; Allison TES 439, MAN 3775; MACK EOS-4.5
API: CK-4, CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4 ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, Cummins CES 20086; Volvo VDS-4.5; Detroit Fluid Specification DDC (DFS) 93K222, Caterpillar ECF-2/ECF-3, MAN M3575, JASO MA/ MA2, Allison TES 439, MB-Approval 228.31
T6 15w40:
API, CK-4, CJ-4, ACEA E9, JASO DH-2, MA/MA 2; Caterpillar ECF-2, ECF-3; Cummins CES 20086; DDC DFS 93K222; MB-Approval 228.31; Volvo VDS-4.5; Ford WSS-M2C171-F1; Allison TES 439, MAN 3775; MACK EOS-4.5
IMO its all about the Moly, Never had a problem with M1 15-50 car or T6 15-40 in my bikes. Last I read the M1 has a good slug of moly and no clutch issues. Usually shears down by 4500 miles where shifting starts to get notchy. I change between 3.5-4.2k miles
T4 and T6 both say "Meets the performance requirements of: ... JASO MA/MA2".
"Meets requirements of" is not the same thing as JASO MA/MA2 licensed/certified.
Nothing wrong with using Rotella HDEO in a wet clutch bike, but some want a certified JASO MA/MA2 oil, not one that just "meets" the requirements of.
Heck, I use Peak Syn Blend 15w-40 HDEO in my bikes, and it mentions noting on the label about JASO at all.
Being JASO MA/MA2 "licensed/certified" just means that the tests were done by the oil manufacturer and then sent to JASO with some money so JASO could look at the test data and register/"certify" the data. I would think if someone puts "meets the performance requirements of xyz" on thier bottle, that they did some testing to prove it. Why Shell won't spend a little money to get it registered with JASO is beyond me - ??.
wemay
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Oh ohhh...there go those words again, "meets and or exceeds"
The hype is the price is low and people seem to like it. It does well in some bikes and not so well in others. I tried T6 5W-40 and found that I have to change it after 2-3000 miles because the shift quality degrades. I no longer use Rotella. For me, it is a false savings to pay less for oil but then change it twice as often.
T6 5w40 sheared horribly in shared sumps bikes, some still used it and liked it. I agree and suspect people liked the idea they were getting synthetic Jaso claimed motorcycle oil at a bargain price is what made it so popular plus always good wear numbers didnt hurt.
However with the new T6 15w40 I would think those shearing issues are now put to rest. For me it was always about shift quality in a metric bike.
I never used the T6 in my metric bikes was very happy with conventional Valvoline 20/50 motorcycle oil for the warm weather and pretty much any diesel oil in the 15/40 for the winter here in SC though if I remember correctly Delo and Mobile Delvac were my favorites, think I was leaning more to Delvac.
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I tried Mobil1 and Valvoline motorcycle oils in my Ninja 650R before landing on T6. Far and away the easiest shifting.
Agreed, since it is not labeled properly in accordance with JASO Implementation Manual Appendix 5: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1904.pdf.
The Mercedes-Benz approvals are worded properly so it seems like they are mixing this and that in their labeling.
But "rated" is irrelevant. Licensed is the key word. It's not listed on the current JASO list (but neither is it required to be) and is not labeled properly. Given both of those however makes one suspect it is not licensed.
Yamalube is, but Valvoline 4-stroke motorcycle oil isn't but they say it meets JASO MA2. Guess Valvoline also didn't send in test data and pay JASO to list their motorcycle oil. There are however some Valvoline products in the JASO list, but not this one.
And here is some Castrol "Power 1 4T" 10W-40 motorcycle oil I have on deck - just took this photo. It also doesn't have the official JASO logo. But if you look in the JASO listed oil link in post #15 there are some Castrol Power 1 4T oils listed. So who knows ... ??
BTW ... JASO document says:
5. Labeling
In the case where a submitter, who has received a notice of acceptance from the Panel, labels the performance class and Oil Code Reference Number on the containers, the submitter shall expressly state that the performance classification and labeling is his/her own responsibility, using the form indicated in Appendix 5.
It doesn't say they have to label the container, only that if they chose to it needs to be done per Appendix 5.
Did I just read someone used Rotella T6 5w40 for 3,000 miles? do you live in the Arctic?, I used T6 5w40 before and I might as well had been using water, because after 300 miles that's what it turned into in my Vulcan 1500, I'm never using 5w40 again in any bike, nothing less than 10w40 now but I prefer the Rotella T4 15w40, the T6 5w40 is meant for Diesel Truck motors that don't use it in their transmission gears that will shear the oil down faster than Ben Johnson can run 100 meters
Ben Johnson? That guy is 60 years old and at least 30 years past being the fastest human. That’s almost faint praise for T6 5w40. But I get your point, lol.
The more you research oil the more you realize any of it will meet or
exceed your mile expectations... there is not one oil in the 300,000
mileage club... there are 30 40 50 grade oils... there are synthetic
and mineral oils... there are Diesel Auto oils and Motorcycle oils...
The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether JASO approved or not is not a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...
exceed your mile expectations... there is not one oil in the 300,000
mileage club... there are 30 40 50 grade oils... there are synthetic
and mineral oils... there are Diesel Auto oils and Motorcycle oils...
The holy trinity of science is 1)Reason 2)Observation 3)Experience...
employing those tools we observe that the primary cause clutch slip
are high mileage... mileage is the constant among all of the clutches
that begin to slip... oil choice whether JASO approved or not is not a
constant... High mileage is the constant where all clutches begin to
loose grip due to normal glazing and contaminates that build up over use...
