It makes me think - why people don't recommend anymore straight grade oils for farm equipment, including lawnmowers and generators?
Maybe because nobody makes any straight grade synthetic oils like HPL?
HPL SAE 40 PCMO
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start date
Maybe because nobody makes any straight grade synthetic oils like HPL?
I think because there is a chance some unknowing customer would inadvertently buy a Non Detergent monograde oil.
That's not a GIF. You just keep stacking L's.
The only fight here is the artificial one you created in your mind.
No one is asking you to use a straight grade oil. Please, keep using your multigrade Supertech, by all means. But it would be great if you'd see yourself out and allow others to discuss their merits and appropriate applications without your constant stream of misinformation, opposition, and poor attitude.
Just like we discussed in the last thread, my owner's manual for my lawn mower lists SAE 30 as an appropriate option for my mower. I already went to the trouble to find it and screenshot it for you once. Don't have the time at the moment.
LOL about my getting the terminology wrong, ie GIF. You know what I'm talking about, so why be one of those whiner, complaining about terminology?
Nobody, and I mean nobody, runs straight 40 weight these days, other than maybe, maybe, someone living in the desert. Why do you persist in pushing this point? It's not even your initiative, you are just glamming onto what another member said.
Why do the no VII oils exist from HPL? Clearly they are not for everyone. But for some, they provide what we consider to be the ultimate in oils.
But there are no oils in this series that have a full strength HTHS over 4. The SAE 40 is the only no-VII oil from HPL with an HTHS of 4.2 or better.
You are certainly correct that any number of 0w or 5w oils are viable. But I left viability behind a long, long time ago as the standard of performance I seek. Many conventional oils are “viable.”
You are also correct that no manufacturer recommends SAE 40. Because doing so would mean the cheapest oils on earth would be within scope of their recommendation. I’m not using this because it’s an SAE 40, I’m using this because it’s an HPL NO VII oil with an HTHS over 4.2. It just happens to say SAE 40 on the bottle. Would it help you feel better if they labeled it as 20w-40?
I’m also using it because the 15w-40, which is a very, very similar blend has proven to be an incredible year-round performer in my area with very harsh start stop duty cycles, cold trips, dilution, etc. This oil is effectively just that same 15w-40 I’ve already validated, but with a tiny bit of VII removed to make it more of a 20w. That’s it. It’s a bit thicker at my temps, but I have margin to give. And by the time it gets REALLY thick, it’s a temperature range I don’t encounter and can easily manage in the unlikely events I do.
I would never recommend just any SAE 40. It’s only this one particular SAE 40 that uses premium blends to deliver superb cold flow (relative to other SAE 40s), high HTHS with low traction, rock solid oxidation resistance and ultimate cleanliness from having no VII.
Consider this oil vs another SAE 40, Valvoline Daily Protection. The Valvoline has a group I base and a viscosity index of 104. it has a pour point of -15C.
But the HPL has a pour point way down at -49C. That is light years better than the petroleum SAE 40. And because it’s a waxless GTL base, it can keep its Newtonian behavior to very low temperatures, allowing a Walther equation estimation to be valid.
So the estimate that this oil passes both 20w tests (CCS and MRV) and passes at least one of the 15w tests (MRV( is pretty high confidence.
Someone has to go first before people will abandon their cherished biases. I’m willing to do that because I’ve done my homework and I’m convinced this oil is very, very special for particular cases where the mild winter permits its use.
When my used oil analysis comes in underwhelming, “you can be the first to say I told you so”, OK? Because I can guarantee you that when it comes in showing amazing performance *I* will certainly be posting a similar “i told you so” to the many skeptics.
Does it say conventional or synthetic and any ambient temperature when used?
The supremacy of base oil choice is exactly why this oil is so appealing to me.
As base oil thickness goes up, the oil becomes 1) less likely to aerate, 2) more resistant to oxidation, 3) less volatile, 4) lower traction for a given final KV100.
This is why you want the base oil to be thicker, not thinner. This is why you want premium, high-viscosity base oils.
But you can’t get premium high viscosity base oils in cheap oils that are 15w-40 or SAE 40. Instead you get cheap, high viscosity (and low INDEX) base oils. The only way to get truly top shelf base oils in a mass market oil is to select a premium 0w and eat the pile of VII that comes with that thin base oil.
The HPL SAE 40 is a rare opportunity to have an oil blending on premium, but high viscosity bases. Heck, this oil might be Nexbase 8 based and thickened even with some mPao inaddition to the AN and Ester.
If you are running a high performance vehicle where you will be pushing elevated temps and frequent changes, then you want an oil with VIIs and 0w. You want the higher viscosity index to keep the bearings happy as temps rise. You need more viscosity index.
But if you have a street car where dilution and oxidation are more of a problem, elevated temperatures are rare (and mild when elevated), and you want to extend drains while bathing your engine in liquid armor, then an oil like this special SAE 40 is quite suitable.
Honestly, I respect your opinion. And mostly, I respect your continual consistent civil approach to different opinions from yours. You don't belittle, nor claim superior knowledge. This is a great thing, and much appreciated.
In my view, using straight weight oil is advantageous from the perspective of reducing viscosity breakdown. Thing is, even if there is some breakdown, thinning the oil, with a thick oil like 40 weight, there is plenty of buffer. And the 0/5/10W cold thickness, is easier to pump.
Two decades of working for an auto OEM has taught me that outward facing specs don't tell the whole story. There is often a "back story" that's not readily apparent, and I don't want to assume that I know all those details. OEM's don't make rash suggestions, and there is little to gain by second guessing their recommendations. That's my learned experience, anyway...
Really nice oil. I imagine it's good enough to get a 25w rating if tested and possibly a 20w with just a touch of polymers. Looking at the hdmo chart which is a budget line the vii for the 20w-40 is 129 and the straight 40 is 125.
It would probably have met 25w but it's not a marine oil which is what 25w-40 usually is and some would only buy straight 40 and not 25w-40 even though they could be the exact same.
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/HD-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf
It would probably have met 25w but it's not a marine oil which is what 25w-40 usually is and some would only buy straight 40 and not 25w-40 even though they could be the exact same.
https://www.hplubricants.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/HD-Engine-Oil-PDS.pdf
It's a lawnmower owners manual that says you can use SAE 30.
They don't really have to give a temperature range, given that the grass is growing and you need to mow it, means that you can use a SAE 30.
Patman
Staff member
I applaud you for thinking outside the box here and I look forward to hearing about your results! It’s stuff like this that helps people on here learn new things and that’s always a good thing
Ignore the negative Nellies 
2 things.
Subaru recommended straight 40 as one of the severe use viscosities up until 2012.
Do we know what the HTHS viscosity of HPL No VII 10w40 is? I remember reading it was developed for the Ecodiesel.
I happily use with HPL 5w40 PCEO HTHS 4.2 and would like to know the 10w40 No VII HTHS
Subaru recommended straight 40 as one of the severe use viscosities up until 2012.
Do we know what the HTHS viscosity of HPL No VII 10w40 is? I remember reading it was developed for the Ecodiesel.
I happily use with HPL 5w40 PCEO HTHS 4.2 and would like to know the 10w40 No VII HTHS
I live in the desert. While I see straight 30 weight quite commonly, I never see straight 40 weight anywhere.
If the no vii 10w-40 was.available, I’d consider it. But I think the PCMO is the star of the line in terms of value.
That’s fair and I appreciate your kind words.
Having seen the sausage made up close for nearly 20 years myself, I think I can sort of read which OEM recommendations are written by engineers and which by regulators and which by attorneys.
I’m not smarter than Honda engineers, I just have latitude they did not have to pursue an entirely different order of priorities. I have the ability to disregard mpg and prioritize wear and cleanliness above all in lubricant selection, they have no such liberty.
Lifetime transmission fluid was not an engineering recommendation. But it’s in many manuals. I disregard it because I want my transmission to last longer than the OEM does. I applied the same reasoning to oil selection.
Most of them are cheap bottom of the line oils that should be avoided even when available.
That's true.
However, I just found a straight SAE40 that people use for racing - Castrol Power1 R40. But that the only instance of SAE40 oil that I've came across.
Like motorcycles and golf carts.Right, thanks!
Summer use only.
