I was tempted to say “don’t try this at home” but I actually want to show you can try at home and it will work brilliantly.
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HPL SAE 40 PCMO
- Thread starter Hohn
- Start date
What's your point? And no, I don't wear pearls, nor do I use straight 40.
Only in the summer though.
The forecast for the next few days and next week too.
However, if the Accord is not your daily drive, it's easy - just don't start it.
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The exercise here is pretty simple: show that a GTL base, no-VII oil with an HTHS over 4.2 is viable for street usage in places even that do get snow sometimes.
This is not the right oil for our Minnesota or ND members. But at some point as you transition to milder climates, the HPL monograde (not to be confused with lesser monogrades) is a viable oil. And because it has zero polymer content, it is probably the pinnacle of cleanliness and shear stability with the lowest possible traction relative to the HTHS. And it does it all as a “budget” HPL oil that has higher TBN than some of the more expensive PAO base lines.
This oil might have one of the highest ratios of HTHS to traction that you can get. So it protects like very thick oil but pumps more like something much thinner and has less parastic loss once warmed up.
I’ve satisfied myself that the 15w-40 HPL in a relentlessly stop/go duty cycle offers not just adequate protection, but SUPERB protection (see recent UOA). So, at least in an HPL formulation, there’s zero reason to go with super thin base oils and higher VII content unless you live in a cold climate that truly needs it. With 15F-20F the common lower limit here, 15w is exceedingly viable and boringly useful. There’s margin to go lower on VII and gain slightly thicker base oil composition and the attendant benefits.
My calculations suggest this oil will have a cranking viscosity of a 20w (barely busting 15w) but would still meet 15w for MRV. And of course, MRV is the more consequential test. The disadvantage of the higher cranking viscosity is that it’s more taxing on starter and battery. That’s not a major issue for me
I’ll need to cold soak the SAE 40 side by side with te 15w to see if I’m going to go straight to SAE 40 on my next drain or if I’m going to blend the two for my Accord.
I have awhile to decide as my Accord OCI is just coming up towards midlife sample.
This is not the right oil for our Minnesota or ND members. But at some point as you transition to milder climates, the HPL monograde (not to be confused with lesser monogrades) is a viable oil. And because it has zero polymer content, it is probably the pinnacle of cleanliness and shear stability with the lowest possible traction relative to the HTHS. And it does it all as a “budget” HPL oil that has higher TBN than some of the more expensive PAO base lines.
This oil might have one of the highest ratios of HTHS to traction that you can get. So it protects like very thick oil but pumps more like something much thinner and has less parastic loss once warmed up.
I’ve satisfied myself that the 15w-40 HPL in a relentlessly stop/go duty cycle offers not just adequate protection, but SUPERB protection (see recent UOA). So, at least in an HPL formulation, there’s zero reason to go with super thin base oils and higher VII content unless you live in a cold climate that truly needs it. With 15F-20F the common lower limit here, 15w is exceedingly viable and boringly useful. There’s margin to go lower on VII and gain slightly thicker base oil composition and the attendant benefits.
My calculations suggest this oil will have a cranking viscosity of a 20w (barely busting 15w) but would still meet 15w for MRV. And of course, MRV is the more consequential test. The disadvantage of the higher cranking viscosity is that it’s more taxing on starter and battery. That’s not a major issue for me
I’ll need to cold soak the SAE 40 side by side with te 15w to see if I’m going to go straight to SAE 40 on my next drain or if I’m going to blend the two for my Accord.
I have awhile to decide as my Accord OCI is just coming up towards midlife sample.
I don’t change oil just because the seasons changed. An oil I can’t use year round is not viable for me.
In the Bahamas or near the Equator!
Not at all. There’s not a drastic difference between this oil and the 15w-40 I’ve been using all winter here in Indiana.
This oil would test as a “thin” 20w most likely. Viable for over half the population of the USA.
However, starting the Accord at 20*F with 15W-40 in December when a few days before that was 5*F, but you didn't dare to crank it up, tells me that the Accord is not your daily driver or you are selective at what temp. to start it.
Which is deceiving to people who'll use their car daily in Midwest like winter temps.
That’s quite presumptive and argumentative.
I will offer some background information so you have facts instead of your suppositions:
I don’t have to drive the car every day, because I work partially remote. But I don’t have the luxury of picking and choosing whether to start it or not. I made some space in the garage so now it gets garaged and I have no need to start it in 20F ambients. I go where I need to go and the Accord gets started because its my car and that’s how I get around. So every monday-wed the car will get driven, cold started before sunrise. It’s driven less the rest of the week, but frequently for errand running the rest of the time.
The 15w-40 has never— I repeat NEVER required me to accomodate it by choosing to not go somewhere or to drive a different vehicle due to cold weather. Never once. It’s PRECISELY because of this that I’m willing to consider SAE 40.
Likewise, my wife has never once given even a second thought to cold starting in our GX that is her primary daily driver. (And whose UOA is proving to be incredible in that usage).
Nobody is forcing you to run any of these oils or suggesting you are wrong to do so. But just because the successful use of these oils challenges your cherished preconceptions doesn’t mean you should indulge your confirmation bias instead of opening your mind.
I’ve lost the desire to defend myself from your argumentation, so this is the last reply you will see from me.
SAE 40wt. worked perfectly for me in TX for years.
Not for non Bitogers!
OK
You used the word probably and budget!
This HTHS thing IMO has more to do with driving conditions and Oil Temperatures!
I am sure that 1 of the HPL's other oils will be fine. I say this since there so-called thinner oils will more than likely hold up as well to their thicker oils. The protection thing, the thickness, does it really matter thick or thin, probably not with an oil like HPL, since the base oil is the most important, at least with HPL. There is an issue with the other oils out there, but with HPL you can use any of their oils and not have any issues.
@Hohn @tired
You guys are free to use whatever oil you desire, same as me, but I, for one, will NOT be using straight 40 grade in any engine I own.
Why use straight 40, when 0/5/10W-40 is just as viable, and easier for the engine to pump when cold? It makes no sense.
There is no auto manufacturer on the planet that suggests using straight 40. Period. Sure, it can be used in certain circumstances, but why bother? Just because of the lack of VI? VI's are not the devils advocate. People driving gas engines are unlikely to exceed 10k miles, most won't drive past 7500, so your agreement is moot, and counter productive.
You guys are free to use whatever oil you desire, same as me, but I, for one, will NOT be using straight 40 grade in any engine I own.
Why use straight 40, when 0/5/10W-40 is just as viable, and easier for the engine to pump when cold? It makes no sense.
There is no auto manufacturer on the planet that suggests using straight 40. Period. Sure, it can be used in certain circumstances, but why bother? Just because of the lack of VI? VI's are not the devils advocate. People driving gas engines are unlikely to exceed 10k miles, most won't drive past 7500, so your agreement is moot, and counter productive.
Well said. Exactly.
Because I got about 100qts of name brand SAE 40 oils for pennies on the dollar.
Pulling out an internet derived GIF, with overlayed wording, is a sure sign of FAIL. Thanks for giving up this silly fight.
Fair enough.
My question is still why didn't you do video on starting your car at 5°F, but chose to make a video a few days later when it was up to 20°F?
5°F is a common winter temp. in the Midwest and similar temp. happen at least several times (staying the same from a few days to a couple of weeks) from December to March. I don't think is good anyone to start their car at those temp. with single-grade 30 or 40 oil, even if it's full synthetic.
The argument is that you selectively test those oils (15W-40) at temperatures decided by you and then are trying to convince the people that's O.K. to use them in the winter. Well, I don't think is fine to use them particularly in Midwest (or more severe) winters. Southerns states - maybe.
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I've used monogrades before and I will use them again. They have many advantages such as absolute shear stability, very low Noack volatility and high HTHS (dynamic viscosity) relative to its KV100 (kinematic viscosity).
Multigrades were designed to take care of a problem, cold starting and being forced to run winter and summer grade oils. Very important if you need that. However if you don't have that problem to begin with then multigrades offer you no real advantage and a few minor disadvantages.
Similarly life jackets were designed to take care of a problem, drowning when boating. Very important if you need that. However if you don't have that problem, say sitting at a computer in an office, then wearing a life jacket offers you no real advantage and a few minor disadvantages. Still it could make a good pillow for your lunch time nap.
Multigrades were designed to take care of a problem, cold starting and being forced to run winter and summer grade oils. Very important if you need that. However if you don't have that problem to begin with then multigrades offer you no real advantage and a few minor disadvantages.
Similarly life jackets were designed to take care of a problem, drowning when boating. Very important if you need that. However if you don't have that problem, say sitting at a computer in an office, then wearing a life jacket offers you no real advantage and a few minor disadvantages. Still it could make a good pillow for your lunch time nap.
