HPL premium plus 0w-40 2021 Ram 2500

[spasm3]

2021 Ram 6.4 gas 6300 miles on oil 8500 miles on vehicle. Mostly towing.
Oil in use 2 years 7 months. Fram ultra filter.

Oil changed to HPL Super car 0w-40 Fram endurance filter.

 

[I<3oil]

Holy cow those things leech copper from the cooling system

 

[Bighorn2500]

Has plenty of base left to go further, but copper does need to wash out over the next few changes.

 

[spasm3]

Holy cow those things leech copper from the cooling system

Yes I think the oil cooler. Engine was probably still breaking in

 

[wwillson]

@spasm3 this is a great example of how not to throw money away when you buy a premium engine oil. Change the oil based on data. The TBN is good, the oxidation is great, and there are no contaminants. The oil could have run probably another year, but you got your money out of it over 31 months in use. Would your engine be any better off if you would have changed the oil once/yr? Not at all. Your pocket book is in better shape though and you didn't use resources with no gain. This is how extended drains should be done.

 

[I<3oil]

Yes I think the oil cooler. Engine was probably still breaking in

Yeah. That’s quite a bit though. I think the most I’ve seen on a UOA is like 50-75

 

[spasm3]

@spasm3 this is a great example of how not to throw money away when you buy a premium engine oil. Change the oil based on data. The TBN is good, the oxidation is great, and there are no contaminants. The oil could have run probably another year, but you got your money out of it over 31 months in use. Would your engine be any better off if you would have change the oil once/yr? Not at all. Your pocket book is in better shape though and you didn't use resources with no gain. This is how extended drains should be done.

Yes, i only changed it, to get some data after over 2 years. That way i know i can run longer. I also changed it out of concern that the engine might still have break in metal, and also to see if the towing had much affect.

Now i know i can probably go 3-4 years.

Although, should i do one more 2 year 6k change due to the copper from break in ?

 

[buster]

Everything looks good. Wear metals are mostly break-in. Viscosity is perfect and no sign of any oxidation.

 

[wwillson]

Although, should i do one more 2 year 6k change due to the copper from break in ?

Not necessary, it won't get much better - see my UOAs

Thread 'Dodge Durango 3.6L - HPL CK-4 5w-20 - 10,474 miles on oil - 184,710 miles total'

Oct 2, 2024

This sample is from the Durango that I used to own. I sold it to my Son and DIL, with the understanding that I get to maintain it. They were somewhat confused and when I told them I want the data for BITOG, they gave me an odd look. Go figure. Their driving habits are much different than mine. They do a lot of short trip driving, while I did a lot of long trips. It will be interesting to compare how short tripping affects the oil compared to long trips. One sample is no samples, but the first short trip sample doesn't look much different.

Previous UOA here

Google Docs...

• wwillson
• Replies: 36
• Forum: Used Oil Analysis - Gasoline

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[hemioiler]

Yeah. That’s quite a bit though. I think the most I’ve seen on a UOA is like 50-75

That spike is very typical, lots of guys running Redline see the same thing.

First time I ran it, I had 94ppm with about 7500k miles on the oil. I'd say about 9 hours freeway towing total on that run. Dropped over each successive run, my last oil change was at 39 ppm on 6200 miles but its been hanging between 40 to 50.

 

[fantastic]

I'd assume it should come down since break-in. Cooper corrosion is possibly from high sulfur levels along w/engine material (copper obviously LOL).

 

[OVERKILL]

Yeah. That’s quite a bit though. I think the most I’ve seen on a UOA is like 50-75

The two reports on my SRT had it had 126 and 118. RAM 1500 was 86 after 81,000km.

 

[I<3oil]

The two reports on my SRT had it had 126 and 118. RAM 1500 was 86 after 81,000km.

/faint

 

[Hohn]

Yes I think the oil cooler. Engine was probably still breaking in

Just an FYI from an old Cummins project I worked on.

Developing the 2010 X15, we were noticing that the pistons kept coking underside and even within the oil cooling galleries. It was so bad than on some of our more heinous abuse tests, the coking would prevent piston cooling enough to cause engine failure on an abuse test.

After poring over reams of test data, one of the most highly respected engineers at Cummins at the time noticed elevated copper levels. And after doing some literature research, he hypothesized that elevated copper was catalyzing some reactions leading to piston deposits.

The only oil-wetted surface in the engine where the copper could come from was the brazing material of the stainless oil cooler. So he rigged up a test with an aluminum cooler and ran to see what operating copper levels would be in the oil and to see whether the pistons would have similar coking and deposits.

The results were quite clear and stunning. With the aluminum cooler, the copper levels in the oil were essentially zero. But the most astounding thing was that the piston coking was ALSO ZERO.

And thus, every 2010 X15 went into production with an aluminum oil cooler instead of stainless cooler.


Now, this was tested using house oil (Premium blue 15w40) and of applicable spec (CJ-4 at the time) so it's not necessarily the case that all copper in oil will lead to piston deposits.


But I'd suggest that elevated copper levels aren't necessarily innocent. Especially on modern engines with oil squirters and gallery cooled pistons, if that copper contributes to deposits and coking, it could be a problem.

 

[KEVINK0000]

I’ve wondered if there wasn’t some downside to chelation

 

[Hohn]

I’ve wondered if there wasn’t some downside to chelation

Just my opinion, but the experience strongly suggested to me that there is.


I couldn't tell you what happens to copper levels over time or if the leaching ever stops or appreciably slows. It stands to reason that it would.

Also, it's worth mentioning that these X15s use monotherm steel pistons and run MUCH hotter than the aluminum pistons in most passenger cars. So the coking issue may not exists on a passenger simply from lower temps alone.

But if I can choose between copper in oil and no copper in oil, I know which one I would pick.

The other reason on diesel you want to avoid copper in oil is that there's always a small amount of oil carryover in a high pressure pump that is oil-lubricated (larger engines, not smaller fuel-lubed pumps like CP3s or CP4s). Which means if you have copper in your oil, you will end up with trace amounts in the fuel.

Yet trace amounts are enough to contribute to injector coking and nozzle deposits. As such, we measure and monitor quite carefully the amount of oil the pump will carry into the fuel, and internal engineering standards set acceptable limits.