I run 15k mile intervals on the standard HPL PCMO 10W-20 in my wife's 2012 Mustang. You can change it at 5k miles,
You don't have direct injection so there's no fuel dilution concerns. You could easily go longer intervals.
HPL Engine Cleaner 30.....800 miles in
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I run 15k mile intervals on the standard HPL PCMO 10W-20 in my wife's 2012 Mustang. You can change it at 5k miles,
You don't have direct injection so there's no fuel dilution concerns. You could easily go longer intervals.
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I think the biggest problem is the cause of the ring coking is not known so how to prevent it is merely speculation. Acura, with a lot of reluctance, finally acknowledged that this engine had issues and provided a solution. Unfortunately they provided no insight to the cause or prevention.
If I still owned the car I would use HPL at 5k intervals.
If I still owned the car I would use HPL at 5k intervals.
I think our focus is all wrong about UOA's and wear metals. Wear metals are in parts per million and the slight differeneces in wear metals are so insignificant and are within the margin of error (aka Standard Deviation) of the UOA tests as a tool in general.
Instead of focusing on UOA's and wear (which I think of as useless), I prefer to focus only on piston ring cleanliness.
Piston ring cleanliness is what's casing the "burn a quart of oil every 1,000 mile" widespread phenomenon in modern cars
as piston rings / oil control rings are getting stuck when they get dirty and are causing the $10,000 engine repair bills of needing a new short block with new piston rings, etc.
Polluted oil left over from the last oil change and not drained out during the current oil change can be contributing to the dirty piston ring issue. The longer your oil change interval, the more polluted that left over oil will be.
For my own vehicles which have Honda J35 engines with VCM enabled, I currently do 4k mile / 6 month oil change intervals
with full synthetic oil so that no new sludge/varnish is added to the engine surfaces, but also more importantly to help prevent any carbon buildup on the piston rings (which are one of the hottest places in the engine).
But even the frequent oil changes may not be enough. I'm thinking its a good idea to do an engine flush at least annually, and also to either use 1 quart HPL EC with every oil change or fully switch to HPL PCMO.
In my view, piston ring cleanliness is the key to engine longevity, and not some 1/1,000,000 difference on a UOA which is within the margin of error (Standard Deviation) of the test.
Instead of focusing on UOA's and wear (which I think of as useless), I prefer to focus only on piston ring cleanliness.
Piston ring cleanliness is what's casing the "burn a quart of oil every 1,000 mile" widespread phenomenon in modern cars
as piston rings / oil control rings are getting stuck when they get dirty and are causing the $10,000 engine repair bills of needing a new short block with new piston rings, etc.
Polluted oil left over from the last oil change and not drained out during the current oil change can be contributing to the dirty piston ring issue. The longer your oil change interval, the more polluted that left over oil will be.
For my own vehicles which have Honda J35 engines with VCM enabled, I currently do 4k mile / 6 month oil change intervals
with full synthetic oil so that no new sludge/varnish is added to the engine surfaces, but also more importantly to help prevent any carbon buildup on the piston rings (which are one of the hottest places in the engine).
But even the frequent oil changes may not be enough. I'm thinking its a good idea to do an engine flush at least annually, and also to either use 1 quart HPL EC with every oil change or fully switch to HPL PCMO.
In my view, piston ring cleanliness is the key to engine longevity, and not some 1/1,000,000 difference on a UOA which is within the margin of error (Standard Deviation) of the test.
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Says who?
So this is my gameplan after reading the comments here and elsewhere:
1) Oil/Filter change in another 1000 miles or so for a total of 2000 on the OCI with the current 1qt of HPL EC30 and the remainder M1 5W30. Odometer will be approx 33,500.
2) Refill with M1 5W30 and another quart of HPL EC30 and OEM Acura filter. Keep that in for approx 2500 miles. Odometer will be approx 36,000.
3) Refill with full HPL PPCO 5W30 and Amsoil Signature Filter (I bought a few of them already). OCI of 4-5K miles.
Prior to each OCI run a bottle of either Techron or Redline SL1 in the last tank up until the day of oil change.
Other than what I've just stated above, I don't know what else can be done as overkill to keep this from burning oil later in life. Of course, like most of you, I do enjoy doing this stuff anyway so it's not like it bothers me at all.
1) Oil/Filter change in another 1000 miles or so for a total of 2000 on the OCI with the current 1qt of HPL EC30 and the remainder M1 5W30. Odometer will be approx 33,500.
2) Refill with M1 5W30 and another quart of HPL EC30 and OEM Acura filter. Keep that in for approx 2500 miles. Odometer will be approx 36,000.
3) Refill with full HPL PPCO 5W30 and Amsoil Signature Filter (I bought a few of them already). OCI of 4-5K miles.
Prior to each OCI run a bottle of either Techron or Redline SL1 in the last tank up until the day of oil change.
Other than what I've just stated above, I don't know what else can be done as overkill to keep this from burning oil later in life. Of course, like most of you, I do enjoy doing this stuff anyway so it's not like it bothers me at all.
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Sounds like a very reasonable plan. Considering HPL has been shown to remove carbon from ring packs, it should hopefully prevent formation.
One thing I would do would be once car is in the shop for it's next 2 oil changes, to have them add the 600 ML of LiquiMoly ProLine Engine Flush (On Walmart and Amazon for about $15 for a 600 ML bottle). Then idle without touching gas pedal for 15 minutes, then immediately drain it out with the old oil. I've used it on my Odyssey's, never had an issue. Oil comes out darker than a normal oil change.
If you were into overkill maintenance which it seems you are (and me too), you could do that during your first 5 oil changes. Goal would be to have the cleanest piston rings and engine internals as humanly possible.
It would have to be large amount of oil left to make any sort of difference, a few ounces in 4 or 5 qts is almost nothing. The difference in one particular engine is 4.8 qt in new built engine and 4.2 at OCI, that is only 6oz and you cant remove that anyway.
Thanks for the reply Trav. I'll definately take your word for it. So then the excess oil is not really an issue.
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Use M1 EP 5w30 instead. It's quite a bit more impressive.
check pcv valve and maybe clean throttle plate/body while running with a PEA based cleaner spray.
Yes, the Honda PCV valves on their J series v-6's are notoriously small and get clogged easily.
I would recommend changing both the PCV valve and the PCV tube with genuine Honda parts.
The small amount left in the engine after an oil change is definitely not an issue in fact having oil already in the oil galleys when the engine starts after an oil change is a good thing you wouldn't want the bearings waiting for oil that would cause a lot more wear.
TiGeo
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Where has that been definitively shown?
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All the UOA's I've seen with 3+ reports from the same engine show trends. Either going down or up (broken hemi with lifter/cam issues).
These trends are real, if it was just a "margin of error" thing you wouldn't be able to graph the numbers and see wear going down in a healthy engine as it breaks in and ages gracefully.
Also the wear numbers are wildly different for different engines. Hemis wear pretty heavily though it doesn't seem to effect longevity in general, just the average numbers are much higher than I've seen for (say) a Tundra's 5.7.
Again, doesn't seem to indicate "insignificant and within the margin of error".
I would agree that one shouldn't like at a difference of 24 PPM for iron vs 26 PPM and then worry about the increase, but general trends over multiple UOA's with the same brand of oil and driving usage... I think they're valid.
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Good point. In all the threads about HPL it “seems” to indicate that the hard carbon particles found in oil filters have come from the ring packs. I certainly could be wrong. I would think that the only way to be sure would be to have pre and post analysis.
I was comparing the esters and alkylated napthalenes in HPL to Valvoline Premium Blue Restore which was designed to clean ring packs. Could be a stretch
TiGeo
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That's what folks are assuming but that doesn't mean it's a fact.
Other than the car sitting in the original owner's garage for months on end at a time and not being driven I don't have many concerns with this low mileage car after replacing all of the preventative maintenance parts last month. I will be proactive as I can with the HPL EC for 2 OCIs and then a permanent switch to to HPL PPCO 5W30 with 4-5k mile OCIs and a new high quality filter. I always use 93 octane tier 1 gas (Costco is 2 blocks from my office so I go there 9 times out of 10) and the last 2 full fill-ups prior to an oil change I will run a bottle of Techron or Redline SL-1 in the tank. If this regiment doesn't prevent oil burning or other issues, my view is that its out of my hands at that point.
OVERKILL
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Absolutely true. Where would you be inclined to believe are alternative sources of this material on low mileage engines that are otherwise impeccably clean inside in the areas we are able to see?
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The areas we can't see.... but marketing and forum hype are too funny.
As such, I haven't seen any picture proof of dirty and then clean ring packs with ANY products. All can be recommended so no point in shilling one brand over another.
I see no need for HPL/Redline/Amsoil oil when Mobil1/Valvoline/Castrol/Pennzoil.... full synthetics are available at local stores, especially with the threadstarter's 5k interval. But, sometimes those fancy brands will send you a free cap or t-shirt to brag with. I got my "insert brand here" sticker for the tool box and a keychain too!
I do hope that shorter intervals, quality fuel, more visc, quality filter(use full synth media)... would/could help with any misengineerings. Maybe not. Just do it.
Don't forget to bleed the brakes. Pretty sure its a 36month interval too. It is a common fluid that is forgotten like PSF(yours is EPS?). Glad you get the xcase and reardiff changed out. Valve clearance?
Since there is a known issue:
I recommend shorter than OE recommended intervals, time or mileage based on average speed/hours and commute time/miles per year, commute type, and no A/B nonsense. Someone mentioned 20% instead of 0% on the OLM like that is a major improvement and it didn't work. Maintenance minders, oil life monitors.... are bare minimum for a disposable vehicle. This one is a keeper until it isn't.
Stick with premium toptier fuel. And, maybe a tank added FI cleaner once or twice a year(depends on miles driven yearly). Keep a good fuel spray pattern and carbon under control, and could only help what creeps down from the combustion side.
New PCV valve and regular inspection. If it clogs, than your interval isn't short enough and/or the oil isn't stout enough. I don't see it as undersized as a cause. Clogged pcv is a maintenance interval issue.
Good coolant ratio and level, fresh coolant(t-stat/rad cap), air filter changes, spark plug changes..... should not be forgotten. So, keep changing those fluids/filters as needed, and earlier if possible.
Simple upgrades, some which you addressed.
If 5w20 or 0w20 is recommended, then use a 5w30. I'd consider a 0w40 or higher HTHS 30.
If conventional is recommended, then use a synthetic.
If 10k miles is the interval or yearly, then 6 months or 5k miles is a starting point. You'll learn how the maintenance minder counts down for your driving. OLM's are a joke on the consumer.
If a cellulose media oil filter is recommended, then use a synthetic media filter.
If the filter is changed every 'other' interval, then change it every interval.
If a tiny oil filter is installed, use a bigger oil filter if there is room.
If the oil dipstick has a 'range', keep the oil level to the 'full' point always, and check often, and top off even if only needing a couple ounces.
If the drainplug doesn't come with a magnet, get a Goldplug, Dimpleplug, PSR, Votex, or equivalent, which can be installed at your next service.
As such, I haven't seen any picture proof of dirty and then clean ring packs with ANY products. All can be recommended so no point in shilling one brand over another.
I see no need for HPL/Redline/Amsoil oil when Mobil1/Valvoline/Castrol/Pennzoil.... full synthetics are available at local stores, especially with the threadstarter's 5k interval. But, sometimes those fancy brands will send you a free cap or t-shirt to brag with. I got my "insert brand here" sticker for the tool box and a keychain too!
I do hope that shorter intervals, quality fuel, more visc, quality filter(use full synth media)... would/could help with any misengineerings. Maybe not. Just do it.
Don't forget to bleed the brakes. Pretty sure its a 36month interval too. It is a common fluid that is forgotten like PSF(yours is EPS?). Glad you get the xcase and reardiff changed out. Valve clearance?
Since there is a known issue:
I recommend shorter than OE recommended intervals, time or mileage based on average speed/hours and commute time/miles per year, commute type, and no A/B nonsense. Someone mentioned 20% instead of 0% on the OLM like that is a major improvement and it didn't work. Maintenance minders, oil life monitors.... are bare minimum for a disposable vehicle. This one is a keeper until it isn't.
Stick with premium toptier fuel. And, maybe a tank added FI cleaner once or twice a year(depends on miles driven yearly). Keep a good fuel spray pattern and carbon under control, and could only help what creeps down from the combustion side.
New PCV valve and regular inspection. If it clogs, than your interval isn't short enough and/or the oil isn't stout enough. I don't see it as undersized as a cause. Clogged pcv is a maintenance interval issue.
Good coolant ratio and level, fresh coolant(t-stat/rad cap), air filter changes, spark plug changes..... should not be forgotten. So, keep changing those fluids/filters as needed, and earlier if possible.
Simple upgrades, some which you addressed.
If 5w20 or 0w20 is recommended, then use a 5w30. I'd consider a 0w40 or higher HTHS 30.
If conventional is recommended, then use a synthetic.
If 10k miles is the interval or yearly, then 6 months or 5k miles is a starting point. You'll learn how the maintenance minder counts down for your driving. OLM's are a joke on the consumer.
If a cellulose media oil filter is recommended, then use a synthetic media filter.
If the filter is changed every 'other' interval, then change it every interval.
If a tiny oil filter is installed, use a bigger oil filter if there is room.
If the oil dipstick has a 'range', keep the oil level to the 'full' point always, and check often, and top off even if only needing a couple ounces.
If the drainplug doesn't come with a magnet, get a Goldplug, Dimpleplug, PSR, Votex, or equivalent, which can be installed at your next service.
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