HPL 0W-20 initial observations..

[UncleDave]

HPL 0W-20 initial impressions and observations. Just high level stuff, Ive got a few blackstone kits ready to send when its time.

Just got back from a 2500 mile trip in my Ridgeline.
The J35 V6, 6 speed AWD combo snaps pretty good.

I spent a stupid amount of time filling exactly to the top hatch prior to leaving and absolutely ZERO oil was consumed/ evaporated/ vanished.

I spent 2.5K miles on high speed 2 lane blacktop that looked like this - basically high desert running from Vegas to Reno then over the I80 to California.

Prob averaging 80, and bursting till the limiter for multi truck/ vehicle passes then settled back down to 80.
I ran with a 1500 ram like this for half a day. We had a good groove going he maintained a higher average speed between slow downs and Id cruise little slower but catch him at the back of pile up - then we would run WFO for multi passes and sneak back in.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

Does it normally consume/evaporate/vanish with other oils you have used?

Just thinking out loud, wouldn’t name brand oils that were all highway miles and staying at operating temperature have done the same thing?

 

[Bill7]

Does it normally consume/evaporate/vanish with other oils you have used?

Just thinking out loud, wouldn’t name brand oils that were all highway miles and staying at operating temperature have done the same thing?

The Esters in the HPL oil would clean the engine more, and also resist forming deposits if engine temperatures get extreme. But from a wear perspective and likely an evaporative loss perspective, any full synthetic oil would have had identical results on that run.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

...wouldn’t name brand oils that were all highway miles and staying at operating temperature have done the same thing?

...any full synthetic oil would have had identical results on that run.

YEMV, but in my case the trend at different times and with different engines seems to be the same: on long highway trips Mobil 1 0W-40 keeps the level, Castrol Edge (5W-30/5W-40/0W-40) drops in level after a couple thousand miles into an OCI, and PP/PUP (5W-30/0W-30/0W-40) requires the most top offs during an OCI. Idk, could've been the perfect storm situations. But after seeing this trend across 20ish vehicles - I quit using Pennzoil offerings. It may be great for many, but in my vehicles it could never handle the higher speeds for longer periods.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Does it normally consume/evaporate/vanish with other oils you have used?

Just thinking out loud, wouldn’t name brand oils that were all highway miles and staying at operating temperature have done the same thing?

Not necessarily. Oils are blended to meet the maximum NOACK allowed for a specification and some are blended below the maximum. Certain base oils have very low NOACK. These are GTL, PAO, Esters

Here are some maximums
API SP: 15%
ACEA Ax/Bx: 13%
ACEA C3x: 13% or 11%

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescriptions/Noack.html

 

[Big_B]

Not necessarily. Oils are blended to meet the maximum NOACK allowed for a specification and some are blended below the maximum. Certain base oils have very low NOACK. These are GTL, PAO, Esters

Here are some maximums
API SP: 15%
ACEA Ax/Bx: 13%
ACEA C3x: 13% or 11%

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescriptions/Noack.html

How are you supposed to get hot chicks with a 15% Noack? Geez.
SP is weak sauce.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

How are you supposed to get hot chicks with a 15% Noack? Geez.
SP is weak sauce.

LOL..ha.

I wouldn't say SP is weak as it does contain LSPI and direct injection timing chain wear tests.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I don't think anybody is running an SP in their pass car. Add the ILSAC layer and most of the common grades are also Dexos 1g3 approval. I recall D1G3 reduces NOACK limit to an amazing 12.5% "average" .
Say bye-bye to those nice initial cleansers and solubilisers that washed your dirty laundry then went home.

 

[02zx9r rev2]

Not necessarily. Oils are blended to meet the maximum NOACK allowed for a specification and some are blended below the maximum. Certain base oils have very low NOACK. These are GTL, PAO, Esters

Here are some maximums
API SP: 15%
ACEA Ax/Bx: 13%
ACEA C3x: 13% or 11%

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Testdescriptions/Noack.html

Got you. I wasn’t thinking about that when I first read the post. Reading what you wrote and rereading his post I see what he is saying now about nothing being burned off or evaporated
Thank tou

 

[Bill7]

YEMV, but in my case the trend at different times and with different engines seems to be the same: on long highway trips Mobil 1 0W-40 keeps the level, Castrol Edge (5W-30/5W-40/0W-40) drops in level after a couple thousand miles into an OCI, and PP/PUP (5W-30/0W-30/0W-40) requires the most top offs during an OCI. Idk, could've been the perfect storm situations. But after seeing this trend across 20ish vehicles - I quit using Pennzoil offerings. It may be great for many, but in my vehicles it could never handle the higher speeds for longer periods.

I've read that scenario in several different BITOG posts by different people, where they have no oil consumption for the 1st 3k miles, then the next 1 or 2k after 3k they see significant oil consumption. The consensus is that it's caused by oil shearing.
The ACEA Euro specs require stay in viscosity grades, but I remember reading somewhere that the API requires the oil to shear significantly for it to get the resource conserving label. I'm going to do more research into that.

 

[travis8352]

Dexos 1 noack limit is 13%

 

[UncleDave]

Does it normally consume/evaporate/vanish with other oils you have used?

Just thinking out loud, wouldn’t name brand oils that were all highway miles and staying at operating temperature have done the same thing?

Good question.

Under conditions like I just created I normally find very minor consumption on the order of a half to a full hash (diamond) mark running "full synthetic" 0W-20's. (M1/ Valvoline/Idemitsu/Napa)

I'll typically see between 1 and 3 hash marks of consumption over a 9-10K OCI.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Dexos 1 noack limit is 13%

I don't know if this was firmed up for D1 Gen 3 but 12.5% (ave of 3) or 13% is not a world of difference.

Ref: Chevron Oronite see "Chemical box" in the table, last row, a couple pages in

passenger car motor oils | Chevron Oronite (Global)

www.oronite.com

 

[nascarnation]

I had a Honda V6 Saturn Vue. That engine always had the cleanest looking oil right out to the OCI point of the dozens of vehicles I've owned. Also the tail pipe outlet was almost perfectly clean. My buddy told me Honda started out making piston rings and that was their expertise. Of course that was 20 yrs ago.

 

[UncleDave]

I had a Honda V6 Saturn Vue. That engine always had the cleanest looking oil right out to the OCI point of the dozens of vehicles I've owned. Also the tail pipe outlet was almost perfectly clean. My buddy told me Honda started out making piston rings and that was their expertise. Of course that was 20 yrs ago.

Honda is an incredible company.

I grew up with and am very fond of Honda products.

They might be the most significant manufacturer in my life despite growing up in a very American/GM/ Oliver tractor household/ farm.

I've been around and driven them but never owned their automotive products, but pretty much everything else they make a slew of street and dirt bikes, generators, mowers, you name it.

This rig is the best all rounder Ive ever owned. Top speed limit aside, this particular vehicle has a similar performance envelope to an 82 Porsche 928 with infinitely more flexibility.

 

[doublebase]

YEMV, but in my case the trend at different times and with different engines seems to be the same: on long highway trips Mobil 1 0W-40 keeps the level, Castrol Edge (5W-30/5W-40/0W-40) drops in level after a couple thousand miles into an OCI, and PP/PUP (5W-30/0W-30/0W-40) requires the most top offs during an OCI. Idk, could've been the perfect storm situations. But after seeing this trend across 20ish vehicles - I quit using Pennzoil offerings. It may be great for many, but in my vehicles it could never handle the higher speeds for longer periods.

I went through a few years where I found myself using Pennzoil a lot, and I did notice a little more consumption with it than with other brands.

I’m currently running Amalie synthetic for a 6,000 mile run (mostly because it was free), and I just came back from a 1,200 mile road trip...oil didn’t seem to lose anything on the dipstick, and this also was/is in the middle of that 6,000 mile OCI sitting there at around 3,000 miles. Haven’t added a drop yet. And since that 1,200 mile trip I’ve put 600 more miles on the car and just checked the level last night, hasn’t moved a bit. Then again my car doesn’t really use much oil between intervals...maybe a half a quart in 10,000 miles, but the Pennzoil was more.

 

[BAJA_05]

YEMV, but in my case the trend at different times and with different engines seems to be the same: on long highway trips Mobil 1 0W-40 keeps the level, Castrol Edge (5W-30/5W-40/0W-40) drops in level after a couple thousand miles into an OCI, and PP/PUP (5W-30/0W-30/0W-40) requires the most top offs during an OCI. Idk, could've been the perfect storm situations. But after seeing this trend across 20ish vehicles - I quit using Pennzoil offerings. It may be great for many, but in my vehicles it could never handle the higher speeds for longer periods.

All has to do with engines, have ran PUP/PP 0W20 & 5W20 at 38 miles one way doing average 78 to 80mph in my Acura in signature with 5000 mile OCIs and "never" had any consumption. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

All has to do with engines, have ran PUP/PP 0W20 & 5W20 at 38 miles one way doing average 78 to 80mph in my Acura in signature with 5000 mile OCIs and "never" had any consumption. Different strokes for different folks.

Like I said, could've been just a perfect storm in my applications. But below are just some (not all) of the engines in our current or past ownership that showed the same trend and appetite towards Pennzoil. Some had oil consumption prior to Pennzoil, and some never consumed any oil before or after Pennzoil. Weird, I have no explanation on the reasons behind this consumption. Initially I thought it was due to being made from Natural Gas, but some other oils using similar Gas-To-Liquid technology didn't show the same level of oil consumption.

*Toyota & Lexus*
- (x3) 3.0L 2JZ-GE (1999/2001/2004)
- (x2) 1.8L 1ZZ-FE (2003/2008, both with updated pistons)
- (x2) 3.0L 1MZ-FE (2001/2006)
- 3.3L 3MZ-FE
- 2.7L 2TR-FE
- 4.0L 1UZ-FE
- 3.5L VQ35DE
- 3.5L 2GR-FE
- 2.4L 2AZ-FE
*Mazda*
- 2.3L MZR / L3-VE
*Honda*
- (x2) 1.7L D17A1 (both 2001 non-vtec)
*Nissan*
- (x2) 2.5L QR25DE (2005/2014)
*Volvo*
- 2.5L B5254T2
- 3.2L B6324S2

 

[ka9mnx]

Like I said, could've been just a perfect storm in my applications. But below are just some (not all) of the engines in our current or past ownership that showed the same trend and appetite towards Pennzoil. Some had oil consumption prior to Pennzoil, and some never consumed any oil before or after Pennzoil. Weird, I have no explanation on the reasons behind this consumption. Initially I thought it was due to being made from Natural Gas, but some other oils using similar Gas-To-Liquid technology didn't show the same level of oil consumption.

*Toyota & Lexus*
- (x3) 3.0L 2JZ-GE (1999/2001/2004)
- (x2) 1.8L 1ZZ-FE (2003/2008, both with updated pistons)
- (x2) 3.0L 1MZ-FE (2001/2006)
- 3.3L 3MZ-FE
- 2.7L 2TR-FE
- 4.0L 1UZ-FE
- 3.5L VQ35DE
- 3.5L 2GR-FE
- 2.4L 2AZ-FE
*Mazda*
- 2.3L MZR / L3-VE
*Honda*
- (x2) 1.7L D17A1 (both 2001 non-vtec)
*Nissan*
- (x2) 2.5L QR25DE (2005/2014)
*Volvo*
- 2.5L B5254T2
- 3.2L B6324S2

I've had the same issue with M1...

 

[Graham Piccinini]

I've had the same issue with M1...

It should be noted that I occasionally had consumption with M1 0W20/0W30/5W30, but not across the board and not at alarmingly elevated levels. It was just a couple engines. And that consumption went away once switched to M1 0W-40.