HPL 0W-20 initial observations..

[UncleDave]

All has to do with engines, have ran PUP/PP 0W20 & 5W20 at 38 miles one way doing average 78 to 80mph in my Acura in signature with 5000 mile OCIs and "never" had any consumption. Different strokes for different folks.

Engines have a lot to do with it, but so does load.

I can run up and down a flat highway at 80MPH and never burn a drop, but then drive 80 MPH though the high desert climbing long hills and pinning the throttle for significant time periods and or hitch a 5K boat to the pin and big surprise consumption occurs.

 

[Bill7]

Like I said, could've been just a perfect storm in my applications. But below are just some (not all) of the engines in our current or past ownership that showed the same trend and appetite towards Pennzoil. Some had oil consumption prior to Pennzoil, and some never consumed any oil before or after Pennzoil. Weird, I have no explanation on the reasons behind this consumption. Initially I thought it was due to being made from Natural Gas, but some other oils using similar Gas-To-Liquid technology didn't show the same level of oil consumption.

*Toyota & Lexus*
- (x3) 3.0L 2JZ-GE (1999/2001/2004)
- (x2) 1.8L 1ZZ-FE (2003/2008, both with updated pistons)
- (x2) 3.0L 1MZ-FE (2001/2006)
- 3.3L 3MZ-FE
- 2.7L 2TR-FE
- 4.0L 1UZ-FE
- 3.5L VQ35DE
- 3.5L 2GR-FE
- 2.4L 2AZ-FE
*Mazda*
- 2.3L MZR / L3-VE
*Honda*
- (x2) 1.7L D17A1 (both 2001 non-vtec)
*Nissan*
- (x2) 2.5L QR25DE (2005/2014)
*Volvo*
- 2.5L B5254T2
- 3.2L B6324S2

Hi. Thanks Graham for your informative post.
Sorry Uncle Dave, not looking to change the topic. Just wanted to ask Graham a quick 1 off question.

I'm currently using Walmart SuperTech Full Synthetic High Mileage oil in all my vehicles ($21.48 for a 5 quart jug at Walmart).
Have you ever used SuperTech Full Synthetic oil - if so, have you experienced odd oil consumption similar to Pennzoil?

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Hi. Thanks Graham for your informative post.
Sorry Uncle Dave, not looking to change the topic. Just wanted to ask Graham a quick 1 off question.

I'm currently using Walmart SuperTech Full Synthetic High Mileage oil in all my vehicles ($21.48 for a 5 quart jug at Walmart).
Have you ever used SuperTech Full Synthetic oil - if so, have you experienced odd oil consumption similar to Pennzoil?

Last time I used SuperTech synthetic - it was in a silver bottle (similar to current Amazon Basics bottle style), and either API SL or SN formulation. Back then didn't notice abnormal consumption. But to be fair - I only used it a handful of times and mostly in the 2JZ and 1ZZ.
Not sure if my experience would be applicable to today's SuperTech options.
Most recent SuperTech oil I used was HDEO 15W-40 version, no complaints there.

 

[cheesepuffs2]

I've had the same issue with M1...

Me too. I changed from M1 to Pennzoil Platinum and my consumption decreased significantly.

 

[singular9]

Its a j35...I don't see why anyone would spend money on expensive oil nor why spend money on oil analysis. Its probably one of the most bulletproof engines out there, comparable to the 2GR-FE. I had one and pretty much raced the car and it was with a manual so it was getting beat on hard, and after 100k miles the cylinders still had like new crosshatching and it never burned oil...

The worst part about the J35 is its timing belt driven, but even after 110k miles the timing belt looked like new with very little fraying or cracking, if any.

5k mile OCI on 5w30 valvoline and it ran like a champ on the track.

 

[UncleDave]

Its a j35...I don't see why anyone would spend money on expensive oil nor why spend money on oil analysis. Its probably one of the most bulletproof engines out there, comparable to the 2GR-FE. I had one and pretty much raced the car and it was with a manual so it was getting beat on hard, and after 100k miles the cylinders still had like new crosshatching and it never burned oil...

The worst part about the J35 is its timing belt driven, but even after 110k miles the timing belt looked like new with very little fraying or cracking, if any.

5k mile OCI on 5w30 valvoline and it ran like a champ on the track.

Was that a pre DI vcm disabled setup?

I haven't spent money on expensive oil since new running off the shelf but rated juice to the MM duration.

I'm pretty sure even racetrack use doesn't see wide open throttle like towing 5K through mountains or desert hills like davis dam where they test j2807 tow standards where you climb 3500 feet in 11 miles. Basically wide open for 11-12 minutes straight in 110 + weather.

Yeah the belt is a bummer, but it sure soaks up high RPM vibration, Ive never had a smoother V6 than this.

 

[singular9]

Was that a pre DI vcm disabled setup?

I haven't spent money on expensive oil since new running off the shelf but rated juice to the MM duration.

I'm pretty sure even racetrack use doesn't see wide open throttle like towing 5K through mountains or desert hills like davis dam where they test j2807 tow standards where you climb 3500 feet in 11 miles. Basically wide open for 11-12 minutes straight in 110 + weather.

Yeah the belt is a bummer, but it sure soaks up high RPM vibration, Ive never had a smoother V6 than this.

J series is inherently not DI. Although some have VCM and some dont, oiling was never the issue. My manual did not have VCM because manuals have it disabled.

I mean...95-100 degree F weather with a lot of high G corners you will probably have oil starvation on one side of the engine at a time.

Towing, sure, its hard on the engine, but again, its a J series, its insanely robust, I have seen them go 300k miles or more with bad maintenance, let alone good..Hence why I ran 5w30 in mine, handles the temps better.

Eh, the 2GR is about as smooth as the J35 and it has 3 chains. V6's are inherently smooth, but yeah, It was a great car while I had it.

 

[JustN89]

J series is inherently not DI. Although some have VCM and some dont, oiling was never the issue. My manual did not have VCM because manuals have it disabled.

I mean...95-100 degree F weather with a lot of high G corners you will probably have oil starvation on one side of the engine at a time.

Towing, sure, its hard on the engine, but again, its a J series, its insanely robust, I have seen them go 300k miles or more with bad maintenance, let alone good..Hence why I ran 5w30 in mine, handles the temps better.

Eh, the 2GR is about as smooth as the J35 and it has 3 chains. V6's are inherently smooth, but yeah, It was a great car while I had it.

The J35 has largely been direct i jet ion since roughly 2015.

VCM was brought up because it’s been a well-documented problem point for the engine, being harsh on oil and causing issues leading to oil burning.

Point being, if you had an earlier version of the J35 without these “features”, then comparing your experience to his is apples-to-oranges.

 

[singular9]

The J35 has largely been direct i jet ion since roughly 2015.

VCM was brought up because it’s been a well-documented problem point for the engine, being harsh on oil and causing issues leading to oil burning.

Point being, if you had an earlier version of the J35 without these “features”, then comparing your experience to his is apples-to-oranges.

Honda J engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

What is the 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine? Is it good or bad? Read about Honda 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine design and features, its the most common problems and relaibility.

www.motorreviewer.com

It is not direct injection. I know my engine that I rebuilt myself

And it doesn't matter. These features are simply electronic, the engine is still the same and the changes are ECU side not engine side. 99.999999% of people have no issues with VCM. Seriously, you are making a big deal out of maybe a few people out of million if not TENS of millions.

The only time the J35 has been seriously revised mechanically is for the new 2023 pilot. All of the "revisions" are related to either electronic fuel rail management from the ECU side or piston/rod combo for compression changes. I raced this engine for a reason, its bulletproof.

 

[Skippy722]

Honda J engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

What is the 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine? Is it good or bad? Read about Honda 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine design and features, its the most common problems and relaibility.

www.motorreviewer.com

It is not direct injection. I know my engine that I rebuilt myself

And it doesn't matter. These features are simply electronic, the engine is still the same and the changes are ECU side not engine side. 99.999999% of people have no issues with VCM. Seriously, you are making a big deal out of maybe a few people out of million if not TENS of millions.

The only time the J35 has been seriously revised mechanically is for the new 2023 pilot. All of the "revisions" are related to either electronic fuel rail management from the ECU side or piston/rod combo for compression changes. I raced this engine for a reason, its bulletproof.

Your J35 wasn’t direct injected, but they did start adding direct injection to it in 2014 on Acura models and in 2016 for Honda models starting with the Pilot.

 

[OVERKILL]

Honda J engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

What is the 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine? Is it good or bad? Read about Honda 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine design and features, its the most common problems and relaibility.

www.motorreviewer.com

It is not direct injection. I know my engine that I rebuilt myself

And it doesn't matter. These features are simply electronic, the engine is still the same and the changes are ECU side not engine side. 99.999999% of people have no issues with VCM. Seriously, you are making a big deal out of maybe a few people out of million if not TENS of millions.

The only time the J35 has been seriously revised mechanically is for the new 2023 pilot. All of the "revisions" are related to either electronic fuel rail management from the ECU side or piston/rod combo for compression changes. I raced this engine for a reason, its bulletproof.

From your second link:

The latest J35 series is the current 3.5L Earth Dreams J35Y engine family. The first J35Y1 engine was launched in the 2013 Honda Accord. The J35Y1 features a traditional VTEC on the intake valves plus Honda's VCM system on the rear (based on location in the engine bay) cylinder bank under low and moderate load. The cylinder head got a reshaped intake and exhaust ports. VTEC kicks after 5,150 rpm. The new power unit replaced the J35Z2/J35Z3 and remained in production until 2017. The J35Y2 differs from Y1 in a 10:1 compression and VTEC without VCM. It also was offered for the Honda Accord, but with a manual gearbox only. Nowadays, Honda uses a range of variations of the J35Y4, which was first introduced in 2014 Honda Legend/Acura RLX. This engine is equipped with a direct fuel injection system, high compression ratio (11.5:1), and VTEC with Variable Cylinder Management (AT models).

So, the post you are replying to is correct, 2015+ J35Y4 would have DI.

 

[Bill7]

Honda J engine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine - In-Depth Look at Design and Reliability

What is the 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine? Is it good or bad? Read about Honda 3.5L J35A/J35Z/J35Y Engine design and features, its the most common problems and relaibility.

www.motorreviewer.com

It is not direct injection. I know my engine that I rebuilt myself

And it doesn't matter. These features are simply electronic, the engine is still the same and the changes are ECU side not engine side. 99.999999% of people have no issues with VCM. Seriously, you are making a big deal out of maybe a few people out of million if not TENS of millions.

The only time the J35 has been seriously revised mechanically is for the new 2023 pilot. All of the "revisions" are related to either electronic fuel rail management from the ECU side or piston/rod combo for compression changes. I raced this engine for a reason, its bulletproof.

Thanks singular9 for those links.

I have 4 vehicles with the Honda J35 engines with the i-VTEC and with VCM version 1 enabled. I love those engines. They are so smooth and powerful. Even with 8 people in the minivan and it loaded up with heavy luggage and going up inclines, the engine never seems stressed, just smooth and powerful.

I've read a lot about the J35 VCM issues, and yes, it has extremely high heat on the front 3 cylinder heads when the eco light goes on and it only runs on those front 3 cylinders. So light footed highway driving with eco light always on is tougher on the oil than city driving.
I do frequent 4k/6 month OCI's with full synthetic oil. I've had the 4 vehicles for many years. No issues so far. When I first purchased them as used vehicles, I did a few Liqui Moly engine flushes, and now to keep them clean I just do the frequent oil changes so the oil never gets dirty/sludgy/lumpy when it flows out of the oil drain hole during an oil change.

I really like the J35 engines. In my opinion, they are the best engines Honda ever made.

 

[UncleDave]

J series is inherently not DI. Although some have VCM and some dont, oiling was never the issue. My manual did not have VCM because manuals have it disabled.

I mean...95-100 degree F weather with a lot of high G corners you will probably have oil starvation on one side of the engine at a time.

Towing, sure, its hard on the engine, but again, its a J series, its insanely robust, I have seen them go 300k miles or more with bad maintenance, let alone good..Hence why I ran 5w30 in mine, handles the temps better.

Eh, the 2GR is about as smooth as the J35 and it has 3 chains. V6's are inherently smooth, but yeah, It was a great car while I had it.

As the others have pointed out this one is DI, and I'm not disabling VCM.
The other thing you didnt have to worry about was intake build up.

We dont have an apples to apple comparison in configs or use, but I'm always interested in hearing peoples experiences.

My 3MZ-FE was close in vibration as was my VQ30. The VQ35 was a bit rougher, but Nissan smoothed it out agin when they bumped to the 3.7, ( I could also go through a very long list of 6's Ive owned) but none stayed as smooth up top where I spend more time than a non tower or track car does.

I dont doubt non towing, or racing automotive use will net several hundred K of easy miles on these engines.
Double the RPM and heat output over the same miles and I'm not so sure things stay the same.

On oiling I would have agreed with you that it needs nothing special, and it got nothing special, just good rated oil for 58K.
Out of curiosity (and fully expecting nothing to see) I ran HPL cleaner and found some gunk I'd never seen.
Not a bunch, just enough to warrant a tiny bit more spend on better grade juice and keeping an eye on it.

In the grand scheme of things spending 50 on an oil change vs 25 over a 9-10K intervals to keep everything just a bit cleaner is worth to to me.

 

[Malo83]

Get the same results on Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 on both my Regal 2.0T and Malibu 3.6, never had to add oil between oil changes.

 

[UncleDave]

Get the same results on Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 on both my Regal 2.0T and Malibu 3.6, never had to add oil between oil changes.

After break in I never had to add oil between changes either.

Which results, I've discussed a few?

Cleaner results after 58K?

Consumption results after a specific route distance/ time/ temp and elevation changes?

You travel from Grass Valley to Vegas on the 80/95 route?

 

[Malo83]

Travel the I5 on the Bay area to LA basin.

 

[UncleDave]

Travel the I5 on the Bay area to LA basin.

Thats a super easy route comparatively and one I do all the time (from the 580 split south)

Almost totally flat with the exception of the grapevine which peaks at 4144.

Nothing like the run over the Donner pass at 7K then multiple hills heading to Vegas, the Baker grade is 4130.

 

[Malo83]

Regardless, any oil will stand up to both driving styles, been using Pennzoil for the last 50+ years with no oil related problems, if it ain't broke, not gonna jump on the HPL bandwagon, but if it works for you.

 

[UncleDave]

Regardless, any oil will stand up to both driving styles, been using Pennzoil for the last 50+ years with no oil related problems, if it ain't broke, not gonna jump on the HPL bandwagon, but if it works for you.

Not the same engines, routes, loads, cleaning and subsequent inspections.

I used to think all similarly rated oils would perform nearly identically as well as sufficiently prevent any buildup, but that doesn't actually appear to be so in my use case.

I'm not attempting to get anyone on any " bandwagon" but simply posting my own experience, discoveries and observations for those interested.

 

[singular9]

Not the same engines, routes, loads, cleaning and subsequent inspections.

I used to think all similarly rated oils would perform nearly identically as well as sufficiently prevent any buildup, but that doesn't actually appear to be so in my use case.

I'm not attempting to get anyone on any " bandwagon" but simply posting my own experience, discoveries and observations for those interested.

This is why if it isn't an economy car motor that can be found in the scrap yard for cheap...
use 1 grade up from recommended. It won't hurt.
0w16 = 0w20
0w20 = 0w30/5w30
etc