I have had both good and bad experiences when dealing with a dealership, however, I have recently moved to a new city and need to establish a quality relationship with a good service dept. I tried once I moved here, and I feel that I got taken for a fool. I took my truck in for an ICP sensor code, and then I was contacted about the laundry list of items that needed to be looked after, some as ridiculous as an 80 dollar air filter that I replaced 3mos earlier. When I took it out to show him how clean it was, it was remarked that the fliter was too old, not dirty... anyway, I lost my faith there. I later found out why. A service guy moved into my apt complex and was telling me how they get paid, on commision! After I told him my story, he was not surprised, and exclaimed that it happens all the time. Well, my truck is under warr. and I need to drop it off if I want it to be covered under warranty. How should you deal with them? This is not food service, where someone is padding a check with an extra drink, its sooo much more. How can you expect honesty with dealers going to pay scales like this? How can you place faith and trust in a buisiness? How do you conduct yourself when every fix, may not fix what is truly wrong? It stands to reason that if they can keep you coming back, that keeps the paychecks coming. I feel sorry for the guys working there as I have been told what the paychecks are. Anyone in the industry care to comment?
How to DEAL with the DEALER...
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I think if you use a few key words, you can tip the service advisor off that you are not an easy target and to just move on to the next guy.
Try to use words like "upsell", "owner's manual" and "required".
Using the word upsell shows that you may recognize an upsell for what it is rather than being clueless and depending on them for advice. Using the term "owner's manual" shows that you've read the countless automotive advice columns or articles that suggest you stick to the factory service schedule and not the dealers recommended schedule.
Using the word "required" with a question shows the same thing - that you understand there is a difference between the "dealer recommended" and the "factory required". Dealerships LOVE to confuse the two.
Try to use words like "upsell", "owner's manual" and "required".
Using the word upsell shows that you may recognize an upsell for what it is rather than being clueless and depending on them for advice. Using the term "owner's manual" shows that you've read the countless automotive advice columns or articles that suggest you stick to the factory service schedule and not the dealers recommended schedule.
Using the word "required" with a question shows the same thing - that you understand there is a difference between the "dealer recommended" and the "factory required". Dealerships LOVE to confuse the two.
I'll tell you how to "establish a quality relationship" with a car dealer:
Throw lots of money around -- they love that and will fawn all over you every time you come in. Tipping is also beneficial. Free gifts will work too. Give the service manager a new rifle or an ATV, it will get you everywhere. Flat-out bribes are also appreciated.
In the meantime, I feel led to spend that same money on my family and fix my cars myself.
Throw lots of money around -- they love that and will fawn all over you every time you come in. Tipping is also beneficial. Free gifts will work too. Give the service manager a new rifle or an ATV, it will get you everywhere. Flat-out bribes are also appreciated.
In the meantime, I feel led to spend that same money on my family and fix my cars myself.
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Originally Posted By: wayniac
I later found out why. A service guy moved into my apt complex and was telling me how they get paid, on commision!
Most shops and many businesses pay on comission.
It's how they go about getting that comission thats the difference between an honest shop and a rip off.
Stealers seem to be the worst when it comes to upselling stuff.
I took my Jeep in under warranty to get a sensor replaced. They called me 4x that day trying to sell me stuff that I didn't need.
They even tried to sell me differential oil changes @ $180 per axle. When I told them that I had already changed the oil and it had brand x synthetic in it they countered with "Is that a Mopar spec lube".
I finally told the guy to just fix the warranty problem and to not call me untill it's ready.
If you don't want to buy their upsells then deny them. Simple as that.
I later found out why. A service guy moved into my apt complex and was telling me how they get paid, on commision!
Most shops and many businesses pay on comission.
It's how they go about getting that comission thats the difference between an honest shop and a rip off.
Stealers seem to be the worst when it comes to upselling stuff.
I took my Jeep in under warranty to get a sensor replaced. They called me 4x that day trying to sell me stuff that I didn't need.
They even tried to sell me differential oil changes @ $180 per axle. When I told them that I had already changed the oil and it had brand x synthetic in it they countered with "Is that a Mopar spec lube".
I finally told the guy to just fix the warranty problem and to not call me untill it's ready.
If you don't want to buy their upsells then deny them. Simple as that.
The service at the dealerships in Houston are just awful. I am not pro-union, but where I lived before they were union, so they paid the best, got the best and independent shops had the flunkies. Here is it reversed.
Plus they harass customers telling them if they don't come in for oil changes and air filters, they will get slower service on other work. While I had bought Fords for 20 years, but they told me I was not loyal enough on maintenance to qualify as a "preferred customer". Finally I had one dealer service dept sabotage my car. When I declined repairs and only paid the inspection fee, they broke a spark plug on the car.
This is why I buy used and go to independents for service.
Plus they harass customers telling them if they don't come in for oil changes and air filters, they will get slower service on other work. While I had bought Fords for 20 years, but they told me I was not loyal enough on maintenance to qualify as a "preferred customer". Finally I had one dealer service dept sabotage my car. When I declined repairs and only paid the inspection fee, they broke a spark plug on the car.
This is why I buy used and go to independents for service.
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The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold. One is that there are way too many people in your pocket for any service and the other is credit. If there was no credit, the dealer would be a ghost town. I find it so odd when I hear of someone say "Well, my last bill was $1200 at the dealer since it needed so much". Many people just don't look at it from the right angle. They think that the service was at sensible cost. They whip out their plastic and pay it ..just like you would for a convenience store coffee and cheese Danish.
I guess you could use how you view dealerships as some measurement of your economic success. If you can handle being taken for a ride without a flinch ...then you're ahead of the curve.
I guess you could use how you view dealerships as some measurement of your economic success. If you can handle being taken for a ride without a flinch ...then you're ahead of the curve.
I would avoid the dealers for all but warranty work. In my experience, they are the highest priced and generally do the worst work. You don't have to agree to any of the stuff they suggest you do--get the warranty repair done and nothing else. If you don't want to do the maintenance yourself find a good local garage. There is no requirement to have maintenance done by a dealer. Sometimes it's hard to find a good repair shop in a new place. You need to ask around with folks who have the same type of vehicle you do. I wouldn't be surprised if some folks here on BITOG could make some recommendations based on where you live.
I have dealt with a few service departments around here. One is pretty awful and once told me they'd need a vehicle more than 24 hours to do an oil change.
The other GM dealership has never tried to sell me anything and do exactly what is needed. In fact, when I asked about shocks, my service rep told me he wouldn't change them on my truck unless he found out they're leaking or unless I felt firm in my decision to replace them. They're a bunch of nice people and the techs answer questions when asked. Sure, I've had a few moments where I wasn't happy, but nothing that would jeopardize the relationship.
Another dealership I go to is a Honda service dept. They have been very similar to the GM description. I sure can't complain.
The other GM dealership has never tried to sell me anything and do exactly what is needed. In fact, when I asked about shocks, my service rep told me he wouldn't change them on my truck unless he found out they're leaking or unless I felt firm in my decision to replace them. They're a bunch of nice people and the techs answer questions when asked. Sure, I've had a few moments where I wasn't happy, but nothing that would jeopardize the relationship.
Another dealership I go to is a Honda service dept. They have been very similar to the GM description. I sure can't complain.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold. One is that there are way too many people in your pocket for any service and the other is credit. If there was no credit, the dealer would be a ghost town. I find it so odd when I hear of someone say "Well, my last bill was $1200 at the dealer since it needed so much". Many people just don't look at it from the right angle. They think that the service was at sensible cost. They whip out their plastic and pay it ..just like you would for a convenience store coffee and cheese Danish.
I agree completely - there is a baffling disconnect between purchases and money. $1200 for service here, $900 for a purse there, and $250 that night for drinks at a bar. Then, when the bill comes, its somehow those nasty credit-card companies fault! They're out to get YOU! Please....
Its almost as if its some sort of mark of shame to be responsible about your automobile. Ask someone if they've so much as googled for maintenance costs on their vehicle and they get defensive. "Oh, no, I don't know anything about cars man, I, I just don't know, I guess I have to just pay them. Thats the way it goes, you know?"
I guess in the end its a good thing for people like you and me. I consider anything that costs too much that idiots pay for a tax on the stupid. I ALWAYS support taxing the stupid
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold. One is that there are way too many people in your pocket for any service and the other is credit. If there was no credit, the dealer would be a ghost town. I find it so odd when I hear of someone say "Well, my last bill was $1200 at the dealer since it needed so much". Many people just don't look at it from the right angle. They think that the service was at sensible cost. They whip out their plastic and pay it ..just like you would for a convenience store coffee and cheese Danish.
I agree completely - there is a baffling disconnect between purchases and money. $1200 for service here, $900 for a purse there, and $250 that night for drinks at a bar. Then, when the bill comes, its somehow those nasty credit-card companies fault! They're out to get YOU! Please....
Its almost as if its some sort of mark of shame to be responsible about your automobile. Ask someone if they've so much as googled for maintenance costs on their vehicle and they get defensive. "Oh, no, I don't know anything about cars man, I, I just don't know, I guess I have to just pay them. Thats the way it goes, you know?"
I guess in the end its a good thing for people like you and me. I consider anything that costs too much that idiots pay for a tax on the stupid. I ALWAYS support taxing the stupid
For any work not under warranty, go to an independent parts shop and ask about a mechanic.
As far as the dealership doing other than warranty work, Nancy Reagan told me to "just say no".
As far as the dealership doing other than warranty work, Nancy Reagan told me to "just say no".
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The way I do it,I make them an offer,if they don`t take it,I walk. If they do take it,SWEET!!!!!!!!!!
Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
For any work not under warranty, go to an independent parts shop and ask about a mechanic.
As far as the dealership doing other than warranty work, Nancy Reagan told me to "just say no".
+1
Though my dealerships are pretty good....but pricey...
For any work not under warranty, go to an independent parts shop and ask about a mechanic.
As far as the dealership doing other than warranty work, Nancy Reagan told me to "just say no".
+1
Though my dealerships are pretty good....but pricey...
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold.
In this age, I don't see why we even need dealerships. For buying a car, I can see the need of a test drive but why can't the manufacturers contract this out to rental car companies? In the era of the internet and custom manufacturing, why not just pick the specifications of the car you want and have it shipped directly to your front door?
For appliances and computers, repair work is virtually always done by authorized local repair facilities. Wouldn't it be cheaper for auto manufacturers to contract out repairs to local independent shops?
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold.
In this age, I don't see why we even need dealerships. For buying a car, I can see the need of a test drive but why can't the manufacturers contract this out to rental car companies? In the era of the internet and custom manufacturing, why not just pick the specifications of the car you want and have it shipped directly to your front door?
For appliances and computers, repair work is virtually always done by authorized local repair facilities. Wouldn't it be cheaper for auto manufacturers to contract out repairs to local independent shops?
Originally Posted By: kb01
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold.
In this age, I don't see why we even need dealerships. For buying a car, I can see the need of a test drive but why can't the manufacturers contract this out to rental car companies? In the era of the internet and custom manufacturing, why not just pick the specifications of the car you want and have it shipped directly to your front door?
For appliances and computers, repair work is virtually always done by authorized local repair facilities. Wouldn't it be cheaper for auto manufacturers to contract out repairs to local independent shops?
Logic would say yes, but sales numbers would say no.
95% of the effort a car salesman puts into a customer is in turning a "just looking" into a "buying" customer. While rational people will buy when they are ready, most people are not, and buy when the dealer tells them to.
The dealership is flashy, shiny, and show-y for a reason. If people only bought cars when they needed them, we'd have a whole lot fewer new cars on the road. I think thats why they haven't really gone towards the "buy car off the internet" model.
Interestingly though, Toyota kind of tried this approach with their scion. It was supposed to be a system where you picked out what you wanted online, had it shipped to the dealer where you took posession. No haggling, no hard sells, no additional dealer markup, etc. I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was any better or worse when it comes to sales numbers though.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
The market hasn't found a remedy for stealerships. It's provided alternatives, but can't seem to correct the corrupt flaw in them. They continue to be as good or bad as the people who own them allow. The main problem is two fold.
In this age, I don't see why we even need dealerships. For buying a car, I can see the need of a test drive but why can't the manufacturers contract this out to rental car companies? In the era of the internet and custom manufacturing, why not just pick the specifications of the car you want and have it shipped directly to your front door?
For appliances and computers, repair work is virtually always done by authorized local repair facilities. Wouldn't it be cheaper for auto manufacturers to contract out repairs to local independent shops?
Logic would say yes, but sales numbers would say no.
95% of the effort a car salesman puts into a customer is in turning a "just looking" into a "buying" customer. While rational people will buy when they are ready, most people are not, and buy when the dealer tells them to.
The dealership is flashy, shiny, and show-y for a reason. If people only bought cars when they needed them, we'd have a whole lot fewer new cars on the road. I think thats why they haven't really gone towards the "buy car off the internet" model.
Interestingly though, Toyota kind of tried this approach with their scion. It was supposed to be a system where you picked out what you wanted online, had it shipped to the dealer where you took posession. No haggling, no hard sells, no additional dealer markup, etc. I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was any better or worse when it comes to sales numbers though.
Originally Posted By: ddombrowski
Logic would say yes, but sales numbers would say no.
95% of the effort a car salesman puts into a customer is in turning a "just looking" into a "buying" customer. While rational people will buy when they are ready, most people are not, and buy when the dealer tells them to.
The dealership is flashy, shiny, and show-y for a reason. If people only bought cars when they needed them, we'd have a whole lot fewer new cars on the road. I think thats why they haven't really gone towards the "buy car off the internet" model.
Interestingly though, Toyota kind of tried this approach with their scion. It was supposed to be a system where you picked out what you wanted online, had it shipped to the dealer where you took posession. No haggling, no hard sells, no additional dealer markup, etc. I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was any better or worse when it comes to sales numbers though.
Those are all really good points. Wasn't a big selling point of Saturn that there was a no haggle policy at dealerships?
I'm sure you're absolutely right that a huge part of selling cars is having a salesman turn the "tire kickers" into buyers. I just know so many people whose blood pressure rises at just the thought of having to deal with a dealership when buying a car. I'm one of those people -- I cringe at just thinking about it: "what can I do to get you in this car today", "my manager wont like it but I'll tell you, this is what I'm going to do...".
Logic would say yes, but sales numbers would say no.
95% of the effort a car salesman puts into a customer is in turning a "just looking" into a "buying" customer. While rational people will buy when they are ready, most people are not, and buy when the dealer tells them to.
The dealership is flashy, shiny, and show-y for a reason. If people only bought cars when they needed them, we'd have a whole lot fewer new cars on the road. I think thats why they haven't really gone towards the "buy car off the internet" model.
Interestingly though, Toyota kind of tried this approach with their scion. It was supposed to be a system where you picked out what you wanted online, had it shipped to the dealer where you took posession. No haggling, no hard sells, no additional dealer markup, etc. I wouldn't be able to tell you if it was any better or worse when it comes to sales numbers though.
Those are all really good points. Wasn't a big selling point of Saturn that there was a no haggle policy at dealerships?
I'm sure you're absolutely right that a huge part of selling cars is having a salesman turn the "tire kickers" into buyers. I just know so many people whose blood pressure rises at just the thought of having to deal with a dealership when buying a car. I'm one of those people -- I cringe at just thinking about it: "what can I do to get you in this car today", "my manager wont like it but I'll tell you, this is what I'm going to do...".
I am in pasadena, and I went to my local Ford dealer, There are 2 within easy driving range, One was rated very poorly online (the one on 45). The other is where my truck is serviced (on 8).
There are two basic assumptions I see over and over:
1) The dealer service dept is the absolute best place to go. The difference in price is negligible between them and a generic shop. My boss' daughter took a ten-year old neon into a dealership when she was in college at another state with transmission issues. He was so pleased it was "done right", IDK at what cost.
2) The dealer IS the manufacturer. "I called nissan and they said to bring it in". Or people yell at the dealer for manufacturing defects or engineering compromises.
It's not too hard to find a good independent shop. I look for:
1) mechanics' own project cars in the lot. Bonus for roll cages
2) cars like mine in the lot. If they like GM and drive GM they get to fix my GM. If the other customers' cars are as old and junky as mine that's a good sign
3) a waiting room the size of a phone booth, honor system coffee & snacks. My guy has a plastic xmas tree he brings out with spark plugs hanging from it!
In a moment of foolishness I went for a state inspection at a different shop that had a clean well lit waiting room, advertisements in the newspaper. They sabotaged my wiper blades* and had a big rack of blades for sale by the register. They alleged my rear brakes were out of adjustment b/c they could spin the tire and not feel drag. So I called the state police, the spec is a pedal that doesn't sink to the bottom 1/3 and working e-brake, had them reinspect my car, and they tore those guys a new one.
*really, seriously, is that their road to riches?
1) The dealer service dept is the absolute best place to go. The difference in price is negligible between them and a generic shop. My boss' daughter took a ten-year old neon into a dealership when she was in college at another state with transmission issues. He was so pleased it was "done right", IDK at what cost.
2) The dealer IS the manufacturer. "I called nissan and they said to bring it in". Or people yell at the dealer for manufacturing defects or engineering compromises.
It's not too hard to find a good independent shop. I look for:
1) mechanics' own project cars in the lot. Bonus for roll cages
2) cars like mine in the lot. If they like GM and drive GM they get to fix my GM. If the other customers' cars are as old and junky as mine that's a good sign
3) a waiting room the size of a phone booth, honor system coffee & snacks. My guy has a plastic xmas tree he brings out with spark plugs hanging from it!
In a moment of foolishness I went for a state inspection at a different shop that had a clean well lit waiting room, advertisements in the newspaper. They sabotaged my wiper blades* and had a big rack of blades for sale by the register. They alleged my rear brakes were out of adjustment b/c they could spin the tire and not feel drag. So I called the state police, the spec is a pedal that doesn't sink to the bottom 1/3 and working e-brake, had them reinspect my car, and they tore those guys a new one.
*really, seriously, is that their road to riches?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
The way I do it,I make them an offer,if they don`t take it,I walk. If they do take it,SWEET!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, negotiate with a service dept. That's a great way to get quality service done. I'm sure they will do a quality job after you beat them down on price. You deserve to get dumped on doing that. I bet you negotiate at restaurants too. I'm sure the cooks and waiters would never spit in your food.
Either pay the price 'cause you don't know how to repair it yourself or learn how.
The way I do it,I make them an offer,if they don`t take it,I walk. If they do take it,SWEET!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, negotiate with a service dept. That's a great way to get quality service done. I'm sure they will do a quality job after you beat them down on price. You deserve to get dumped on doing that. I bet you negotiate at restaurants too. I'm sure the cooks and waiters would never spit in your food.
Either pay the price 'cause you don't know how to repair it yourself or learn how.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
There are two basic assumptions I see over and over:
1) The dealer service dept is the absolute best place to go. The difference in price is negligible between them and a generic shop.
My uncle is like this. Oil changes at the dealer are often advertised with a coupon for $25-30, which is no different than an indy shop. Of course we all know this is just to get you in the door, but it works! Lots of people think the dealer is a much better value for the money based on an equal-cost oil change.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
2) The dealer IS the manufacturer. "I called nissan and they said to bring it in". Or people yell at the dealer for manufacturing defects or engineering compromises.
And the dealerships know it! They love to make it seem as if they are the final authority on the car. I love backing them into a corner and watching them squirm when confronted with this.
Dealer: Well, you really need to use this maintenance schedule (with tons of extras)!
Me: Really? That's GM's schedule for this car?
Dealer: Well, we here at "Something-Something Chevrolet" know that this is the correct schedule to follow.
Me: Yeah, I'm sure it is. Its funny though because I don't see it printed in the owner's manual....did you say this was GM's factory schedule?
Dealer: Yes! Its definitely the schedule for "Something-Something Chevrolet"
Me: Yeah, you said that. But I wasn't asking about "Something-Something Chevrolet", I was asking what the General Motors Corporation specifies for the car. Does the General Motors Corporation require this schedule in their owners manuals?
Dealer: Well......I'll have to ask my manager. BYE!
Originally Posted By: eljefino
*really, seriously, is that their road to riches?
You wouldn't think so, at yet there are tons of businesses that make their money on high margin little items. Best buy comes to mind with their near-invoice televisions and 500% markup USB cables.
There are two basic assumptions I see over and over:
1) The dealer service dept is the absolute best place to go. The difference in price is negligible between them and a generic shop.
My uncle is like this. Oil changes at the dealer are often advertised with a coupon for $25-30, which is no different than an indy shop. Of course we all know this is just to get you in the door, but it works! Lots of people think the dealer is a much better value for the money based on an equal-cost oil change.
Originally Posted By: eljefino
2) The dealer IS the manufacturer. "I called nissan and they said to bring it in". Or people yell at the dealer for manufacturing defects or engineering compromises.
And the dealerships know it! They love to make it seem as if they are the final authority on the car. I love backing them into a corner and watching them squirm when confronted with this.
Dealer: Well, you really need to use this maintenance schedule (with tons of extras)!
Me: Really? That's GM's schedule for this car?
Dealer: Well, we here at "Something-Something Chevrolet" know that this is the correct schedule to follow.
Me: Yeah, I'm sure it is. Its funny though because I don't see it printed in the owner's manual....did you say this was GM's factory schedule?
Dealer: Yes! Its definitely the schedule for "Something-Something Chevrolet"
Me: Yeah, you said that. But I wasn't asking about "Something-Something Chevrolet", I was asking what the General Motors Corporation specifies for the car. Does the General Motors Corporation require this schedule in their owners manuals?
Dealer: Well......I'll have to ask my manager. BYE!
Originally Posted By: eljefino
*really, seriously, is that their road to riches?
You wouldn't think so, at yet there are tons of businesses that make their money on high margin little items. Best buy comes to mind with their near-invoice televisions and 500% markup USB cables.
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