How Realistic Is This Theory?

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I wonder why Toyota reconsidered and changed the recommended 7500 mile OCI to 5000 mile one? Landcrusier with 4.7 v8 and 7.3 qt sump capacity
 
Originally Posted By: Y_K
I wonder why Toyota reconsidered and changed the recommended 7500 mile OCI to 5000 mile one? Landcrusier with 4.7 v8 and 7.3 qt sump capacity

I guess their expected usage of the vehicle did not match their customer's. Presumably vehicles were subject to more short-tripping or conditions that degrade the oil quickly.
 
Originally Posted By: B320i

Uh, go and check the whole of BITOG, then the rest of the internet before making that claim.

This is happening exactly as the thread suggests: New oil takes time to build a layer of additives. It doesn't just 'start working' the minute you start the engine. Engine oil isn't effective till it reaches close to full operating temperature. Industry experts posting on here have stated this time and time again.

In that time before the protecting film exists, more wear occurs. As I said though, over the life of the car it may not enough to be detrimental.

Talking about 30,000km intervals, you will find plenty of those in the trucking community regularly run such intervals, and so can anyone else running good oil and using their vehicle primarily on long trips. Again, using oil analysis is the only way you can be sure that isn't harmful to the engine.


If new additives in fresh oil need some time to be fully effective, isn't the protective layer of the previous oil still there to protect, and just replenished by new additives?..I still don't buy this theory, too many flaws in it.
Regarding truck engines - have you ever driven a truck? They use to run mostly long highway trips, sometimes between countries and continents. A truck can make 10 000kms in one week, noone would change the oil weekly, because no neeed for it, oil just won't be stressed enough. For a truck 1500rpm is the upper zone or revolutions, they use to run at about 500rpm, no spirited driving there, no stop and go city driving, oil in this case doesn't see much punishment. No comparison possible between the oil in a sporty driven, dailydriver often revved up to 7000rpm and more and the one in a truck used mostly for long trips in ridiculously low rpm range.
 
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Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Regarding truck engines - have you ever driven a truck? They use to run mostly long highway trips, sometimes between countries and continents. A truck can make 10 000kms in one week, noone would change the oil weekly, because no neeed for it, oil just won't be stressed enough. For a truck 1500rpm is the upper zone or revolutions, they use to run at about 500rpm, no spirited driving there, no stop and go city driving, oil in this case doesn't see much punishment.


really ?

I've seen MUCH MUCH bigger diesels turning more RPM than you state.

Not sure what RPM has to do with activation of additives and tribofilms...
 
I've driven those 13 litre diesels, redline was 2500 rpm... usually ran 1200 to 1500 rpm while cruising.

10.000 per week is in all practicality impossible, as the speedlimit is 90 kph, and the hours per week are limited to 56. You'd need 3 drivers for that...
 
As with everything here, using one value to determine an answer to a complex question is ill advised IMO. Time alone cannot be the only variable here. There isn't a magic tic of the clock that tells the additives to react when there are an infinite number of factors like, environmental conditions, how equipment is driven, oil makeup, what oil was used before, how long was the previous oci etc... to consider, just to name a few. The real world is not a lab where preset conditions are tested.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

really ?

I've seen MUCH MUCH bigger diesels turning more RPM than you state.

Not sure what RPM has to do with activation of additives and tribofilms...


Yeah, the truth...

How much more rpm were turning the BIG BIG BIG diesels that you have seen (not driven!) than the numbers I stated? 19 000rpm? In Formula 1 maybe, but in truck engines impossible.
RPMs have much to do with engine load, engine temperature, and as a result of all them - oil wear, I feel sorry I have to explain such basic things in a forum like BITOG...
Answering only to be opponent when indeed have nothing valuable to say is losing time (of both sides).
 
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Most modern engines have a closely controlled temperature - and are designed and built for predicted loads, RPM, etc ...
You either accept this theory or not - why get personal with any well respected individual on this site ?
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Most modern engines have a closely controlled temperature - and are designed and built for predicted loads, RPM, etc ...
You either accept this theory or not - why get personal with any well respected individual on this site ?


+1
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Most modern engines have a closely controlled temperature - and are designed and built for predicted loads, RPM, etc ...
You either accept this theory or not - why get personal with any well respected individual on this site ?


Do you tell me that an engine running almost constantly at 500 rpm and other running most of the time above 4000rpm, reaching oftenly 8000rpm would stress their oils in the same way/rate? Maybe for nothing the oil in race cars is being changed after every race/trackday?

Before accusing me of "getting personal" with whoever on this site why not take a closer look at my posts even just in this thread and the answers the "well respected individul" gave me, then decide who's getting personal and disrespectfull (not for the first time)?..
 
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Trucks to F1 ? - when someone is getting that extreme for examples you have lost most folks who come here to maintain what they own. Yes, I have driven 18 wheelers - so that and $5 bucks gets me coffee at Starbucks when it comes to tribology.
I manage folks who maintain CAT C280's - so what ? - did not buy them and follow OEM ...
Again, I think most folks come here to learn & share knowledge - I have been "steered" in the right direction by some of these same folks - move on and add value to the discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: 4WD
Trucks to F1 ? - when someone is getting that extreme for examples you have lost most folks who come here to maintain what they own. Yes, I have driven 18 wheelers - so that and $5 bucks gets me coffee at Starbucks when it comes to tribology.
I manage folks who maintain CAT C280's - so what ? - did not buy them and follow OEM ...
Again, I think most folks come here to learn & share knowledge - I have been "steered" in the right direction by some of these same folks - move on and add value to the discussion.


Both F1 and trucks can be given as an example in a car discussion forum, considering the fact that both categories are moved by internal combustion engines using oil as lubricating element, more it was not me who introduced the trucks in the current thread, but being the trucks once part of the conversation I used F1 to illustrate my example... If you don't want to see the OBVIOUS facts in my statements and just insist on arguing with me for "being personel with a well-respected" member on this board, then luck.
 
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There's 3 oci's possible:

too soon,
about right,
too long.


Only one of those is ideal, not soo hard to grasp, is it? Nobody said that you have to extend the oci, or en have to run up to the oci to be "just about right". But change too soon, and you'll add a very small fraction of extra wear. Change too late and you'll add a lot of extra wear.

Also consider that not all wear is abrasive and/or caused by circulating wear metals.
 
Kind of like Goldilocks Jetronic
smile.gif


I believe that your assessment is pretty much right on. I do think edhackett hit the nail right on the head as well. With the VVT VQ motors too long would be over 7500 miles even if using Pennzoil Ultra or Castrol gold bottle. These motors are just really hard on motor oil. It doesn't help that the capacity is low to a degree as well. Now, for my old Ford Fusion with a 3.0 motor with a 5.5 qt capacity a bit too long could be 12k-15k miles given certain operating conditions. That motor was a good bit easier on oil than the VQs.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
There's 3 oci's possible:

too soon,
about right,
too long.


Only one of those is ideal, not soo hard to grasp, is it? Nobody said that you have to extend the oci, or en have to run up to the oci to be "just about right". But change too soon, and you'll add a very small fraction of extra wear. Change too late and you'll add a lot of extra wear.

Also consider that not all wear is abrasive and/or caused by circulating wear metals.


Mmmmm no. Not only 3 OCIs possible. Many, but many more...
Not only one is ideal...
Most said (you included) that short OCI will add "a small fraction of extra wear" and that's [censored]...
I'm afraid you're wrong on ALL points, at least try to write a little bit better, we're not seers...
 
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[/quote] ...........................and that's [censored]...
I'm afraid you're wrong on ALL points, at least try to write a little bit better, we're not seers...[/quote]

Time to shut this thread.

Its becoming little red riding hood chased by the big bad wolf.
 
Originally Posted By: Thebimmerfan
Do you tell me that an engine running almost constantly at 500 rpm and other running most of the time above 4000rpm, reaching oftenly 8000rpm would stress their oils in the same way/rate?


Not sure where 500RPM comes from...here's Cummins ISX
http://www.cummins.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/ISX-and-Signiture-EGR-brochure.pdf

Only rated between 1,000 and 2,100RPM, much the same range as Jetronic suggested from his driving experience. 4.5" diameter at 2,100RPM gives 41.2ps surface speed on the mains....1,400RPm cruise 27.5fps

Pick my L67 at 5,200 RPM. Main diameter 2.5 - 56 fps. 2,000RPM cruise 22fps.
 
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