How far apart are conventional and "synthetics"

[ram_man]

You read about how conventional is better than ever and synthetics aren't always even true pure synthetics.
So how far apart are they in quality? I know alot of manufacturers are favoring synthetics now over dino. And i realize both will protect am engine. I just am wondering how far apart is the quality gap?

 

[CT8]

It depends on many things but these days until the extremes not enough difference to worry about. Pick what ever oil you want and run it.

 

[AirgunSavant]

I'm sure this thread will go on forever.....
I use top quality FS on most everything however I got to appreciate PYB lately with extended use on several vehicles.
I'm actually thrilled when I see the Yellow Bottle Of Goodness... lol

And SS oils impress me as well. Have you ever noticed when you put a drop on the filter O-ring
that the SS just feels very slick even compared to FS. Has me wondering if SS has all the benefits
of both and it maybe dollar for dollar the way to go. Like CM in the SS 5w30 brew.

Taking other manufacturers tests into consideration and I'm talking Amsoil where Castrol conventional GTX
was right up there with the premium FS Signature series makes me think that spending more money is not really getting you as much as you think. I do like spending money on Fram Ultras or M1 filters though.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Especially since the natural gas to liquid base oils have really taken off. Seems most of the differences center around NOACK, HTHS, etc anymore. And one has to factor in the add packs which can vary somewhat and affect performance.

 

[mctmatt]

The full synthetic is often times marketed to handle high tempts much better than conventional. Not sure that is true but that is often what I see or hear when they advertise the benefits of full synthetic oil.

 

[Jetronic]

it's true for PAO/POE oils, not so much for group 3 synthetics

 

[toneydoc]

The real concerns probably are

1. How cold does it really get where you live and the fact that you want good flow quickly at really cold temps and

2. How long do you want it to last between oil changes?

The extended performance or longer interval sythetics have good additive packages that allow them to go longer between changes
and the 0wxx oils tend to flow really well at really cold temps.

I bet there is a world of difference between many off brand conventional oils and the name brand synthetics.

If you are talking about say Mobil 1 conventional oil, I bet 5-6k miles is no problem. With their Mobil 1 synthetics, 10k miles is no problem.

 

[Koz1]

Mobil 1 has a document explaining their Synthetics produce 10x less wear. Its been produced here before the search might work.

 

[FCD]

I'd say the gap between say a high quality Mineral Group II oil and a So called Group III synthetic ( which it is not depending who you ask ) isn't that huge, really where synthetics are better is at long drain intervals, the difference in wear at say 3 or 5k miles between a good Grp II conventional and a Grp III synthetic is probably small, however at 6 or 7.5k miles the synthetic would probably be doing a better job.
Another place where a synthetic has a significant advantage is in sub zero weather, they also have typically higher flash points whcih means they can withstand extreme heat better but the difference at high temps is probably not that significant as the oil in most engines doesn't get as hot to show any real benefits.
Yes i say "probably" a lot because there are tons of variables that come into play.

 

[BrocLuno]

Depends on how you define "synthetics" ... If we're talking Penrite 10/10's, Motul 300V, Redline and few others - there is a world of difference. If we are talking consumer grade synthetics, not so much...

Severely hydro-processed dino oils are very good. As good as Mobil 1, well withing spitting distance as long as the temps do not get out of hand. If you are racing and the temps are north of 300*, yeah you need real synthetics. If you have effective oil cooling and the coolant temps stay below 220*, not so much...

I agree that for street use, semi's are great

 

[Carguy21]

A lot of tech knowledge here, let's talk about brands and give you an example, how do you compare PYB vs PP or VWB vs SynPower???...

 

[ram_man]

In a real world application at 7500 oil change intervals is there really a difference in performance.

 

[corndogzombie]

Their within arms reach of each other on the store shelves

 

[SR5]

The higher specs like Dexos1 and Euro A3/B4 only exist as either full synthetics or semi-synthetics. I suspect the issue is that Grp 2 & Grp 1 base oils require more VM (VII and PPD) to make the required viscosity grade. These extra VM probably make it harder to reach the lower Noack volatility limits, deposit limits, and shear stability required of the higher specs.

Now, if they started to produce mineral oils in narrow viscosity grades, like 10W20 or 15W30, then mineral oils will have the opportunity to shine. But for extreme temperature, hot or cold, synthetics have the advantage.

 

[fdcg27]

My guess is that for the drain intervals most of us use for most of our cars, the difference is very small.
You do see notably lower NOACK volatility with even a Grp III over a Grp II, but that test is run at a high enough temperature for a long enough time to be of no more than academic interest for most of us.
Grp IIIs do have higher basestock VI than do Grp IIs by definition, so any given grade of Grp III should require lower VII content than would the same grade using a Grp II basestock.
All shelf oils are made using a blend of basestocks as required to meet the planned spec for the finished oil. Basestock content is also largely based upon what the blender produces, so SOPUS has long favored Grp III, recently in the GTL flavor, for its premium oils while XOM blends in a healthy dose of Grp IV in at least some of its better oils.
Does all of this really matter to most of us as we use the vehicles we typically have?
Probably not.

 

[wemay]

Unless the vehicle specs a 'synthetic' only approval, i wouldn't be concerned.

Anecdotal only...
Our 2013 Hyundai Turbo, purchased in 2012, requires SM/GF-4^. We've mostly used dino SN/GF-5 at 4-6 month oci (under 4,000 mls). Runs like new. No worries. My old 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII ran on mostly 15w40 dino for over 170K mls. Zero issues.

 

[bbhero]

Hey Wemay, I wonder if it might be a thought to run a HTO-06 in that turbo ?? This Honda spec is a tough one that tests used oil for resistance to forming deposits and varnish formation.

 

[ram_man]

I just wonder if i run up to 8,000 miles if a conventional oil could easiily handle it as a synthetic would. I don't see a reason to spend more money than necessary.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Not a apples to apples comparison, but it is what it is. I took a 1996 Cummins N-14 to 1.4 million miles using the same conventional Kendall oil. It got 30,000 mile oil changes, no bypass filters or additives of any kind. Only repairs that engine got was 1 fuel injector and an accessory drive seal. Went right to work for next owner. Many conventional oils are highly underrated by the average person.

 

[corndogzombie]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Not a apples to apples comparison, but it is what it is. I took a 1996 Cummins N-14 to 1.4 million miles using the same conventional Kendall oil. It got 30,000 mile oil changes, no bypass filters or additives of any kind. Only repairs that engine got was 1 fuel injector and an accessory drive seal. Went right to work for next owner. Many conventional oils are highly underrated by the average person.
That's actually pretty impressive even for a tractor. That the only work done was a fuel injector and accessory seal in nearly 1.4 million miles. And on conventional oil.