How does Amsoil come up with their OCI's?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jan 8, 2005
Messages
252
Location
Virginia
My vehicle is an 04 Toyota Tacoma, and I use Amsoil ASL 5w30 with a SDF-57 Amsoil filter. My local rep. adviced me to run this oil for 25k miles with a filter change and top off at 12,500 miles. How does Amsoil know my truck's engine can handle that long of an oci? I'm wondering if I should use a used oil analysis at 12,500 before going the distance? Anyone have a horror story on an oci this long?
dunno.gif
 
Well, in all the years Amsoil has been marketing, they have had virtually no warranty claims relating to their 25k recommendation, providing the engine was otherwise in good mechanical condition, in particular, without coolant ingress, head gasket leaks, malfunctioning PCV, etc.

Another question to perhaps ask, is 'how does Amsoil know that the oil can't go twice as long as 25k miles' with that engine/filter/oil combo? After all, you wouldn't want to be dumping out $10/quart Amsoil prematurely, now would you?


I question their advice with respect to filter changes personally, more than their advice with respect to oil changes. In my opinion, their recommendations of premature filter changes places them in the same league as the 3k mile/3 month quickie-lube promoters. Many modern vehicles specify filter-change-intervals far in excess of 12.5k miles.

used oil analysis is ultimately your best guide, and I think you will generally find the BiTOG crowd to be enormously conservative with respect to oil changes, even with used oil analysis data. A used oil analysis taken close to when the engine is coming off of warranty is a fairly good idea anyways -- much better 'cheap insurance' than a gazillion excess oil changes.

Another paradox to consider with Amsoil -- only people who care a lot about their oil will generally buy their product, the rest of us just use quickie-lubes or a favourite dino/synth brand. Those who care a lot about oil tend to change frequently. I can count on one hand probably the number of 25k mile OCI used oil analysis I've seen here with Amsoil -- so not a lot of people actually follow the recommendations, which keeps any potential warranty claims low, allowing Amsoil to keep reinforcing that 25k miles is okay, and the cycle continues.
 
It's 25k or 1 year - WHICHEVER COMES FIRST. I'd say that 95% of Amsoil customers will hit the time limit well before they get close to 25k miles.

The reason for including a one year time limit is to account for differences in the severity of driving conditions. For example, if you only drive 8000 miles per year, but it's all short trips, you can degrade the oil more than you would in 15,000 miles of mainly highway driving.

The implication if you drive 25,000 miles in a years time is that you're doing mostly highway driving, and/or you have an engine that's kept running and sees few cold starts each day. A significant amount of your oil contamination occurs during those first 10-15 minutes while the engine and oil are warming up to their equilibrium temps. Once the engine and the oil are fully warmed up, very little oil contamination occurs. Oil life under those conditions is almost entirely based on the oils ability to resist oxidation and nitration....

The short answer to your question is that the Amsoil OCI's are determined by field testing, as well as several decades of oil analysis data, taken from hundreds of thousands of passenger vehicles in all types of service conditions....

Amsoil is in the process of developing 25,000 mile/1 year, oil filters for passenger vehicles, based on the Donaldson "Nanotechnology", filter media. Expect to see those become available in the next 3-6 months...
wink.gif


Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
 
Well even then, if Amsoil is recommending 25k miles, then there must be a ton of vehicles in which it produces acceptable results over a 50k mile cycle. And of course, a few where 25k miles is marginal.

Obviously the key thing is, where does your particular vehicle and your manner of operation fall?

Amsoil obviously has to specify a limit to their liability insofar as the guarantee/warranty they provide, for the purposes of conforming to the GAAP rules with respect to accounting for warranty claims -- warranties cannot be of an indeterminate duration. I would suggest that the '1-year' limit has more to do with financial engineering, than actual mechanical and lubrication engineering principles.
 
Pitzel,

The 25k products (ASL/ATM/AMO) have been field tested out to 35k miles and the S2000 has been field tested out to 50k miles, with filter changes and topoffs every 12.5k miles.

Amsoil generally field tests out to 50% past their recommended OCI's, in order to insure there is a margin of safety with their recommendations....

Ted
 
Depends on risk factor of the engine. The 3.4 is proven to handle extended OCI's. The only things I have had problems on my 02 for example are..um.. one alternator and a TSB for a dash rattle.
For the most part warranty work scares the **** out of me. They end up doing more harm than good. I am in a big believer in it being cheaper and easier to fix minor stuff yourself. People go in for warranty on minor stuff all the time for the "principle" that it is under warranty. My thoughts are my time is more important than to waste it dealing with the boobs at any dealership.


TooSlick;
I posted your OCI formula on another forum that Superglide is on for a similar inquiry.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Superglide:
My vehicle is an 04 Toyota Tacoma, and I use Amsoil ASL 5w30 with a SDF-57 Amsoil filter. My local rep. adviced me to run this oil for 25k miles with a filter change and top off at 12,500 miles. How does Amsoil know my truck's engine can handle that long of an oci? I'm wondering if I should use a used oil analysis at 12,500 before going the distance? Anyone have a horror story on an oci this long?
dunno.gif


I average 15K a year on my 2002 V6 Tacoma and since its under warrenty i had the oil changed with redline 5w30 for most of its life till recently i switched to amsoil 5w30. Once my warrenty is up ill be going to every other season change interval with their 10w30. Me personally would not go the full distance without an oil analysis. Changing it twice a year at almost $50.00 an oil change is better than taking it to some oil change place and paying $30-40 every 3K so in the long run im still saving money.
 
Extended oci's are great except for the warranty. I can not see that it's worth the risk to go that far outside the factory schedule. The cost of a new engine is beyond my pocket change.
 
quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Amsoil is in the process of developing 25,000 mile/1 year, oil filters for passenger vehicles, based on the Donaldson "Nanotechnology", filter media. Expect to see those become available in the next 3-6 months...
wink.gif


Interesting comment, I have always felt that the filter change was more so that one tops up the oil with fresh high-TBN oil, rather than an actual necessitated replacement of the filter itself.

If my car's manufacturer recommends 30k mile filter change intervals (and 10k OCI's), and I stick to the manufacturer's recommended filter change regimen, while adopting Amsoil's 25k mile/1 year recommendation, is the Amsoil 'warranty' still intact?
 
The warranty doesn't cover wear, but an engine failure due to their oil.
In all my years working on vehicles, I've never seen an engine fail strictly because of crap oil.
There's no way they will ever have to pay out.
In other words, what oil won't last a year without producing total engine failure?
 
Amsoil gets about 20 warranty claims a year, according to the latest issue of their dealer magazine. Most are easily disposed due to abnormal contamination from coolant, dirt or fuel. The rest are investigated further by engineers and independent experts that Amsoil hires for this task. They look at the TSB's on the affected motor and try to determine the root cause of the failure. In the event that no root cause can be found, Amsoil does pay to replace the engine.

I do think that an engine that wore out prematurely would be covered by their warranty, or an engine that sludged up to the extent that it failed during a years time, even if it took that sludge years to accumulate.

By the way, my understanding is that when these new oil filters come out, Amsoil will be altering their service interval recommendations. The new recommendation is supposed to be 25k/1 year for "normal" (read ideal), service and 15k/1 year for "severe" service. The new oil filters are also supposed to last for that full duration in either case.

Tooslick
 
When AMSOIL first came on the market some 32 years ago, the recommended drain interval was 25,000 miles. That was based on field use and oil analysis.

AMSOIL has multiple thousands of oil analysis reports to back their recommendations.

For those worried, plan to take an oil sample at the manufacturer's recommended interval. This will show the oil is still suitable for continued use (unless there is a mechanical problem, and then get back to the dealer with a copy).
 
You know, if you fear that your dealer/carmaker will act in bad faith and void your warranty even though you used Amsoil in a safe fashion, you COULD just buy an oil-change worth of (INSERT cheapest warranty-valid oil here) and a warranty-legal filter every dealer-mandated OCI and save the receipts, then sell your excess oil to a buddy or use it in another vehicle in your family, like your dad's beater '87 Chevy Caprice with the oil leak.
On edit review:
I forgot to mention, I would ONLY consider the mentioned behavior ethical in a situation where the dealer was trying to void your warranty in a situation where the warranty denial was completely bogus and an attempt to cut warranty costs at the expense of throwing away the dealer and carmaker's moral authority and correctness.
In other words, don't be a scammer, but protect yourself.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom