House wiring question

[road_rascal]

I'm having an issue with a circuit in my townhouse. I installed a new LED dimmer switch in my kitchen (so I can run LED lights) a few days ago and everything worked fine. Now this morning I went to turn on the lights and nothing. Ok, so maybe the switch went bad. Installed another one (I'm replacing a few dimmer switches with new leading edge ones) and still no lights. I pulled the switch and measured the voltage- 33V. What the heck? I know the circuit breaker is OK as that one feeds one other outlet and that shows 120V. So I'm guessing that there's a short somewhere. Thoughts?

 

[knerml]

You are measuring voltage from the light fixture.

Do you have LED bulbs? Are they dimmable?

 

[JC1]

What else is wired on that circuit? Are the wire nuts ok, nothing came loose when you put it back in the box?

 

[CT8]

Have you checked the circuit breaker?

 

[MParr]

YOU MUST HAVE DIMMABLE LED BULBS OR IT WON'T WORK.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted by road_rascal
II pulled the switch and measured the voltage- 33V.


Was this with the wires still hot and attached to the screws?

Does the switch require a neutral, and if so, how was this hooked up? What color wires come and go from your switch.

Some smarter switches bleed current through the "filament" of the bulb, but these are rated for LEDs and should be designed better. LEDs don't like "bleeding" current. Other switches use neutral to flow the current they need to survive, think, and thrive.

 

[road_rascal]

OK- yes I have dimmable LED bulbs. Further checking shows 0 volts with breaker off and 33-34V with breaker on. Breaker works since it controls 4 outlets in an adjacent room (just found that out). All 4 outlets have 120V. All wire nuts are tight. And like I said in my first post the lights worked fine for a few days and now this morning nada. This is the switch I'm using.

 

[maxdustington]

Call an electrician before you burn your house down.

 

[mk378]

This is a system with only one switch controlling the lights, right?

In that case jump the switch and turn the breaker on, see if the lights come on.

 

[exranger06]

The voltage is 33V from where to where? You need to have a reference point when talking about voltage. Simply saying "33V" is meaningless unless we know which two points you're measuring from.

 

[road_rascal]

Originally Posted by mk378
This is a system with only one switch controlling the lights, right?

In that case jump the switch and turn the breaker on, see if the lights come on.


Yes, only one switch. I'm having a buddy that's smarter than me about electrical work come over and take a look.

 

[road_rascal]

Originally Posted by exranger06
The voltage is 33V from where to where? You need to have a reference point when talking about voltage. Simply saying "33V" is meaningless unless we know which two points you're measuring from.


Neutral and hot wires.

 

[Nukeman7]

I have seen this many times before when the outlet/switch that reads below 120 volts is downstream of another outlet (or switch) that is fed by the same breaker. Every time it was because the wire feeding the non-functioning downstream outlet/switch was connected to the upstream outlet by using the spring tension push-in connectors instead of the screw terminals. Electrical contractors don't typically use the screw terminals because it is much faster to use the push in connector. The spring tension will sometimes fatigue and loosen the wire connection, thereby resulting in lower voltage on the downstream leg of the circuit. You should cut off the breaker, pull out the upstream outlet and reconnect all the wires with the screw terminals on that outlet. If that is not feasible because the wires are too short, I would suggest replacing the outlet with a heavy duty version.

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by Nukeman7
I have seen this many times before when the outlet/switch that reads below 120 volts is downstream of another outlet (or switch) that is fed by the same breaker. Every time it was because the wire feeding the non-functioning downstream outlet/switch was connected to the upstream outlet by using the spring tension push-in connectors instead of the screw terminals. Electrical contractors don't typically use the screw terminals because it is much faster to use the push in connector. The spring tension will sometimes fatigue and loosen the wire connection, thereby resulting in lower voltage on the downstream leg of the circuit. You should cut off the breaker, pull out the upstream outlet and reconnect all the wires with the screw terminals on that outlet. If that is not feasible because the wires are too short, I would suggest replacing the outlet with a heavy duty version.


+1 - never use that cheap push in spring loaded connector. The total contact are is about the the size of a pin head. Some electricians will never go in and out of an outlet. They use a pigtail to power outlet. Some outlets have a hole in back where to slide wire in and tighten a screw. Those are fine.

 

[Donald]

You should be using a dimmer made for LED lights. And dimmable LEDs.

It's a new world.

 

[Fitter30]

You might have lost the ground. Have a three wire extension cord plug it in a good receptacle check voltage from your led dimmer to the ground from the cord if you have have start checking devices on the same circuit for a loose or bad connection.

 

[road_rascal]

Originally Posted by Donald
You should be using a dimmer made for LED lights. And dimmable LEDs.

It's a new world.


That's what I'm using- new leading edge dimmer switch and LED can lights.

 

[road_rascal]

Originally Posted by Fitter30
You might have lost the ground. Have a three wire extension cord plug it in a good receptacle check voltage from your led dimmer to the ground from the cord if you have have start checking devices on the same circuit for a loose or bad connection.


What baffles me though is that the new switch and lights worked for a few days and now nothing. I'm going to start pulling the outlets that are in the same circuit and check those.

 

[mk378]

@nukeman7 has a good point about the push-in outlets. If you find those, plan to replace them all eventually-- you should do it pre-emptively as time and budget allows. I think they were banned sometime in the 1980's.

Start by checking the outlet that is physically closest to the kitchen, this is where the wire to the lights likely connects.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted by road_rascal
OK- yes I have dimmable LED bulbs. Further checking shows 0 volts with breaker off and 33-34V with breaker on. Breaker works since it controls 4 outlets in an adjacent room (just found that out). All 4 outlets have 120V. All wire nuts are tight. And like I said in my first post the lights worked fine for a few days and now this morning nada.


So just to be definite, the dimmer is removed, the breaker is on, and you measure 120V at other points on the circuit, but only 33 at the actual wires that would be nutted to the dimmer?

And there is no dimmer nutted on?

Is this a three way circuit?