Honda's first oil change recommendation

[Danh]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: Danh
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: parshisa
There's absolutely nothing special about the factory fill (average additive package with high moly from the lube used to build the engine). Engine break in occurs within first hours of it's work and it is likely broken in before you drive off the lot. Just watch the condition of the oil. Not sure what honda you drive but if it is Turbocharged beware of fuel dilution. My oil was done by 4K. It was badly diluted, sheared and low on viscosity. Just common sense. There's nothing special about these mass produced cars. Cheers


Honda's official position is that doing the first oil change early can cause engine damage. We will not change the oil for the first time until it gets down to at least 20%.

After that, change it every month if you want.

To be fair, it's awfully hard to find this language from Honda anywhere now. It certainly isn't in the Owner's Manual and I think it's gone from the FAQ section of Honda's website. The recommendation may be out there somewhere, but it isn't obvious, service departments seem to have never heard of it and most owners are oblivious.

My question was more of a theoretical one: if this was Honda's position, why was it so important and what benefit did molybdenum provide after a couple thousand miles?


Our service bulletins are where this info is located. The bulletin states changing the oil too early can cause hot spots to form in the engine, which can damage it. We get a new version of the bulletin every couple of years.

Will not be in the owners manual, because Honda just expects the customer to follow the maintenance minder.


So my "molybdenum prevents hot spots during break-in" theory was correct? Gee...

If it's really that important though, Honda should emphasize it more: I'll bet a good number of owners still follow the early ff change routine thinking it's beneficial. And with modern Honda engines being really good at fuel dilution, knowing what to do is not entirely clear.

Thanks for the info.

 

[M1Accord]

For what it is worth, I changed the factory oil out of my 2002 Accord at 1k miles and added Mobil 1 in. My Accord has 210k and still run very strong even though it looks very rough. For my 2012 Fit, I changed the factory lube out at 4K miles as I had much longer commute with it than with the Accord back in 2002 so it is more of a time, which was 3 months, than the miles that triggered the first oil changes.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Honda's official position is that doing the first oil change early can cause engine damage. We will not change the oil for the first time until it gets down to at least 20%.
We had a brand new Accord a few years ago and around 3-4000 miles, I called the dealer to schedule an oil-change appointment (wasn't able to do it at home at the point plus I wanted to show that we properly maintained it). They asked how many miles it had, I told them, they asked if the OLM was saying to change it, which it wasn't. They said to wait until it said to change it.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted By: Danh

If it's really that important though, Honda should emphasize it more: I'll bet a good number of owners still follow the early ff change routine thinking it's beneficial. And with modern Honda engines being really good at fuel dilution, knowing what to do is not entirely clear.


The manual says to change it when the OLM comes on - that's what "a good number of owners" are going to go by. The vast majority of owners know nothing about changing "FF" early.

 

[Danh]

I suppose for OCD Honda owners here one compromise would be to change the factory fill early and replace it with Mazda 0w-20 with Moly, for one OCI at least. Looking at UOAs here, both the Honda ff and Mazda 0w-20 have c. 500 ppm of molybdenum, which should help with the break-in "hot-spot" issue. And it wouldn't violate Honda's rule about no oil additives.

Best of both worlds?

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: Wurlitzer
Sinclair dino only.


Can't tell if sarcasm, or...

 

[fdcg27]

HGMO SM has around 1000 PPM moly. I still have some in the stash.
PP and M1 EP have only nugatory amounts of moly by comparison.
For our '12, I ran to 15%MM on the FF, which was about 8.7K.
As ChiTDI noted above, Honda may have solid reasons for recommending that the FF be run for a normal interval.
I've speculated in the past that metal particles too small for the filter to catch may actually aid in breakin.
Nobody here ever did subscribe to this theory, but who knows?
After all, didn't Chevy actually recommend the use of Bon Ami cleanser to seat the rings on early SBCs that showed high consumption when new? It worked too.
Anyway, as the '12 approaches 70K, it needs no adds during normal interval changes using various 0W-20s so I probably didn't hurt it by running the FF that long. May have even been beneficial.

 

[mitsuman47]

As a guy that daily drives a 375k mile Civic that still pulls higher than EPA fuel mileage #'s, I don't see any issue leaving the ff in the full OCI. That's what I did. And when I had the head gasket changed last summer, I still had factory honing marks in the cylinder walls. (sorry no pics, didn't even think about it when I was at the shop checking on the car).

But, I remember years ago someone found the filtering efficiency #s on the Honda A01 and A02 filters and it was in the 60%'s or 70%'s. So, I wonder if you just changed the filter to something like a FU the day you brought it home from the dealership, if it there would be any benefit.

Now, who's gonna go buy a couple hundred civics and do a proper scientific test?