Honda moves Civic refresh forward to 2013

[KrisZ]

Honda's jet engine and small airplane endeavor, while closely watched and respected by the industry, is not entirely mature yet to call it a success, the verdict is still up.
Other thatn that, lets get Honda a free pass just because they are an "engine company that happens to make cars", nothing to see here lets move along

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jeepster_nut
It means that Honda can and does excel in most any field they enter. SAAB's auto failure speaks for itself.

Haven't found anything that sticks out on a Honda engine?? Well the chinese sure have. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Yea, those Hondas are know for their horrible build quality and poor reliability and years of past poor manufacturing issues and sticking it to their customers. That has kept them in business all these years.

I'm by no means a dyed in the wool Honda guy, but I call it like I see it. I will give Ford and GM and SAAB and Subaru credit when they spread themselves across as many markets as Honda does, and succeeds.


Ford and GM didn't start out making small engines like Honda. Going by your logic here, that's like giving Lockheed [censored] because they don't build little one-person aircraft.

 

[Nick R]

I think that most of you are forgetting something very important. What the average person wants. The average person does not WANT a 80s style, stripped car with a manual transmission AM/FM radio, no A/C, vinyl seats, no airbags, no ABS, no TC, car. Maybe you do, but if that is all Honda made they would be out of business in less than 2 years, because very, very few people would buy them. Unless they charged $6k for the car.

I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car. If they hadn't done that, then it probably would have been as big a success as every other Civic has been. Contrary to popular belief, I do not hate Honda. I actually like most of their cars, and do not want to see them disappear.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car.


That's really all it is. They apparently (reportedly) made a deliberate business decision based on the data they had and how they predicted the buying patterns to be, and it turned out to be not as they had anticipated. It's happened to every company out there. What I think is out of the ordinary is they've taken the negative reviews seriously enough that they're refreshing the car after just one or two model years.

 

[cchase]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: Nick R
I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car.


That's really all it is. They apparently (reportedly) made a deliberate business decision based on the data they had and how they predicted the buying patterns to be, and it turned out to be not as they had anticipated. It's happened to every company out there. What I think is out of the ordinary is they've taken the negative reviews seriously enough that they're refreshing the car after just one or two model years.


Right. This is kind of like the Honda version of the Hummer, for GM. GM planned the Hummer H2 before gas prices spiraled out of control. Honda has just been quicker to realize its folly.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
I agree with JOD.
Alot of people, myself included, just quit replying or choose not to say anything when they read comments like that to avoid the labeling or backlash.

Exactly. Been as critical as anyone of the 2012 Civic and other recent generation Hondas. That said, I've had some decent results with Hondas, even an 01 Civic with an AT.

But, seeing what happened to JOD in a Honda recent thread, confirmed it's better just to not respond as there was seemingly one predetermined answer from the get go. And if it's an AT in addition to being a Honda, the buyer/owner is also labeled as lazy on top of being an apologist.

As for the topic, looks like the powers that be read and saw some of the response from CR and the automotive press, and took it to heart. Perhaps a wake up call for Honda for a vehicle that looks very Saturnesque to me. Certainly doesn't look like a total redesign.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
I think that most of you are forgetting something very important. What the average person wants. The average person does not WANT a 80s style, stripped car with a manual transmission AM/FM radio, no A/C, vinyl seats, no airbags, no ABS, no TC, car. Maybe you do, but if that is all Honda made they would be out of business in less than 2 years, because very, very few people would buy them. Unless they charged $6k for the car.

I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car. If they hadn't done that, then it probably would have been as big a success as every other Civic has been. Contrary to popular belief, I do not hate Honda. I actually like most of their cars, and do not want to see them disappear.


The problem is that today people DO want less gadgets but MORE basic quality and durability. Skip the flash and give us the meat and potatos or better hard part quality like Honda had in the past.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
I think that most of you are forgetting something very important. What the average person wants. The average person does not WANT a 80s style, stripped car with a manual transmission AM/FM radio, no A/C, vinyl seats, no airbags, no ABS, no TC, car. Maybe you do, but if that is all Honda made they would be out of business in less than 2 years, because very, very few people would buy them. Unless they charged $6k for the car.

I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car. If they hadn't done that, then it probably would have been as big a success as every other Civic has been. Contrary to popular belief, I do not hate Honda. I actually like most of their cars, and do not want to see them disappear.


Agreed. That's the formula that has made Kia, Hyundai or Ford real players in the small car market. Heck, a new cheapo Kia or Ford has more features than my wife's A6.

 

[johnsmellsalot]

I think Hondas are over priced. With Honda, you're just paying for the name.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
I think Hondas are over priced. With Honda, you're just paying for the name.


That's the biggest mistake of Honda today, they are borrowing on their reputation IN THE PAST. That loan is now UP!

Bring back the company that WAS.

 

[d00df00d]

Good companies rise to meet a challenge. That's what Honda did many years ago.

The real test often comes after they triumph. Being on top can make anyone forget what got them there.

 

[Dave Hess]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
About the only car from Honda that's impressed me lately has been the Fit. And even that, while a very nice driver's car, is lacking in a few areas. MPG's aren't great, the interior feels cheap although it's held up very well, and the car is fairly noisy overall. It has been the typical Honda reliable, and the interior swallows passengers and cargo like a much bigger car.


Are the seats in the Honda Fit as bad as some people on the web say they are ?

 

[ffracer]

Originally Posted By: Nick R
I think that most of you are forgetting something very important. What the average person wants. The average person does not WANT a 80s style, stripped car with a manual transmission AM/FM radio, no A/C, vinyl seats, no airbags, no ABS, no TC, car. Maybe you do, but if that is all Honda made they would be out of business in less than 2 years, because very, very few people would buy them. Unless they charged $6k for the car.

I think the issue here is that Honda thought they could get away with cheaping out an otherwise excellent car. If they hadn't done that, then it probably would have been as big a success as every other Civic has been. Contrary to popular belief, I do not hate Honda. I actually like most of their cars, and do not want to see them disappear.


Honda primarily didn't build cars with exception of the base Civic in the 80s like that. People bought them because they were not econoboxes, they bought them because they were the whole package in a mass market car. Fun to drive. a manual transmission that was so smooth that people bought them by choice in the US, their take rate was inexcess of 50% on some US models. Most of the world still drives manuals, just not US drivers. Light cars that handled very well and had responsive handling, steering, and throttle response. They were driver's cars. And reliable. Very reliable. and efficient. Nobody made fun, efficient, and reliable then. It was generally pick two of the three.

The interiors were well made out of good materials that were very durable, not just nice looking.

All cars have ABS. Traction control is an option and just an aid, not a necessity. hasn't been for decades, why it is needed today. If one NEEDs to depend on it, you shouldn't be driving.

All some of us are saying is less gizmos and more quality. Less complexity, safety features, and better driving experiences.

I have to agree and am surprised but the Focus and Cruze are most like the old Hondas, albeit heavy.

I loved Hondas, had 3, was a big fan of their approach in Formula 1 and Indycar racing. But they are lost.

 

[bigmike]

I try not to be biased here. I do believe Honda should get back to the basics and, along with that, do some redesigns. That said though, I really like our Accord. There are some things I dislike, but overall it's a great car. I bought into it based on many things (familiarity, dependable, safe, simple to work on, etc), and it has impressed me in those areas.

It really is what it is and nothing more, but that's exactly what I was wanting. Alot of people have complaints about it (styling, too big, seats, etc), but some of those features didn't matter to me and some were very important, such as the larger size of the Gen 8 because I want leg room. I'd repurchase the car if needed, but I'd also give a long look to Hyundai a 2nd time around.

 

[needsducktape]

Ok.Enough

Here is the big problem: Do we have accurate statistical data that CLEARLY shows Honda as being less reliable?! Less durable. (ie What percentage of the Honda transmissions failed?.. was the ratio more or less than the Chrysler transmission issue?! )



The problem to me is everyone has the internet...

AND as I have said before: The owner (and friend) of an upscale restaurant once told me. Go to restaurant and have a great dining experience and you may tell one or two people. Go to a restaurant and have a bad experience and you will tell everyone you know.

I think much of this "Honda is now junk" is based on perception, hear say and the ability to share information quicker than ever.

I buy sportbikes every year, fix them up ride then sell. (its how I justify having a $5,000 toy) Consistently, the Hondas I notice, have better secondary parts (literally, the nuts and bolts) To me, this says that they DO pay attention to the little details, refinement and durability. Every motorcycle compnay can build a fast bike with a good set of pistons and rings. -Honda stands out because of all the finer details...


However, I agree, they lost some of the driving dynamics, BUT I also think they have ALWAYS had a quirky odd style...

Just my opinion

On a side note: I think Hyundai simply out advertised ever other company and **Poof** they are popular...(and PERCEIVED as reliable)

 

[SteveSRT8]

I agree. Much of the evidence presented on the net is pure hearsay.
Once upon a time that was not enough for conviction!

For those of you dreaming of a stripper car with no gizmos, those days are long gone. The manufacturers are simply selling what we want. If there was a significant demand they would sell one. Guaranteed.

All cars are too heavy these days. I am amazed at the curb weights. Hondas used to be notable for their lithe weight and sizing, but they are just growing up to the mass audiences they seek. It's all about the money.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8


For those of you dreaming of a stripper car with no gizmos, those days are long gone. The manufacturers are simply selling what we want. If there was a significant demand they would sell one. Guaranteed.




No they wouldn't. Try finding any base cars like that even if they are offered by a manufacturer. You can't. The reason that cars like this don't sell is because you can't find them on the lots therefore customers are FORCED to buy MORE car than they actually want many times.

Quote:

All cars are too heavy these days. I am amazed at the curb weights. Hondas used to be notable for their lithe weight and sizing, but they are just growing up to the mass audiences they seek. It's all about the money.


Indeed mostly all bloatmobiles. Not to mention the styling makes for tiny windows, high belt lines and claustrophobic interiors with pretty bad blind spots.

 

[d00df00d]

I'm with SteveSRT8 on this one. While I share the feeling that bloat is being crammed down our throats, I think that's just a result of the companies responding to what the market wants and I don't.

 

[91344George]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I'm with SteveSRT8 on this one. While I share the feeling that bloat is being crammed down our throats, I think that's just a result of the companies responding to what the market wants and I don't.


Actually they are responding to the profit motive more than what the customer wants.

Short term gains (greed) eventually will kill the golden goose of course.

 

[sciphi]

Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
Originally Posted By: sciphi
About the only car from Honda that's impressed me lately has been the Fit. And even that, while a very nice driver's car, is lacking in a few areas. MPG's aren't great, the interior feels cheap although it's held up very well, and the car is fairly noisy overall. It has been the typical Honda reliable, and the interior swallows passengers and cargo like a much bigger car.


Are the seats in the Honda Fit as bad as some people on the web say they are ?

It depends on the reviewer. For me who is average-sized American male, they're comfy for trips short and long. For my fiance, who is average-size American female, they're the same. Our friends/family who have spent time in it have had only good things to say about the seats and the interior in general. The car's fairly narrow and tall, which makes the seats slightly narrower than the seats in an old Buick or an F150. That could be an issue for some folks. Also, it depends on what vehicle the reviewer is coming from. The seats are firm. They do give, they are comfortable for me, and they are firm. They're not the usual American plush overstuffed car seats.