Honda moves Civic refresh forward to 2013

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Hokiefyd

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Honda just released the 2012 Civic to less than critical acclaim. This article was interesting to me, in particular, Mr. Ito's comments about how the 2012 Civic was designed:
Quote:
Ito reportedly explained that the 2012 Civic was under development during the American financial crisis, which led Honda executives to believe Americans would accept lower-quality cars, so long as they were fuel-efficient and affordable. That plan appears to have backfired, as competitors launched a range of cars with expanded feature lists and improved quality — notably the Chevrolet Cruze, Ford Focus, and Hyundai Elantra.
Looks like Honda made an error in judgement and will hasten a fix. WOT @ Motor Trend
 
Honda seems to be [censored] off a lot of their traditional customers. As the owner of a VCM 6 cyl, I can report that a lot of longtime owners are disgusted with the problems with this particular piece of fuel mileage engineering and have been alienated from Honda for life. Add to that the completely boring Acura line and I see a car company in big trouble. It's really a shame given that this company was born out of excellence in design of high output four cylinder engines in their motorcycles. Honda desperately needs to return to HO designs and forget about cheap, high mileage [censored] for people who do not know or care about cars.
 
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Well, (at least according to the respective websites) the Civic starts cheaper ($15.9K) than the Focus ($18K), Cruze ($16.3K) or Elantra ($16.5K).
 
honda quality???? LOL. Some will say Im biased. But stuff like this just backs up my comments. Accept a lower quality car? Give me a break. Didnt they realize what made people want to buy honda? And there is substantial quality differences even between the early 90s and late 90s. Ive seen it firsthand on friends' vehicles. Time for the Honda apologists to come out. The same ones likely that would allow no excuse for GM or others. Of course it wasnt just Honda that used such logic. Look at that ridiculous Mexican made US-spec jetta that VW put together. All in the name of cost cutting. No thanks.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Accept a lower quality car? Give me a break. Didnt they realize what made people want to buy honda?
My thoughts exactly.
 
The 2012 Civic is ugly and looks cheap. The Koreans put a whooping on the Japanese cars and they are now playing catchup. Chevy also did a number on them with the Cruze.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Of course it wasnt just Honda that used such logic.
No, Honda's not alone. Ironically, it was the domestic manufacturers, for decades, who used this tiered quality system for their lineups. Interior materials and construction of the smaller vehicles were inferior to those of their large vehicles. Now, as the article notes, the situation is reversed: domestic manufacturers' smaller cars are at least as good as their larger ones, and are very class-competitive, while smaller offerings from Honda and Toyota are on the cheap end. I think this is good of Honda. Not that the 2012 Civic was a dud to begin with, but that they're responding so quickly to the negative reception of the car. They clearly made a business decision that was wrong and they're apparently working quickly to fix it. It normally takes much, much longer for this type of error in judgement to get mitigated.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
WOT @ Motor Trend
Whoa... I used to say in the past that some of the Hyundais looked like Hondas and Toyotas. Looking at the photos of this new Civic, I will now say that this Honda looks like a Hyundai. If I wasn't clear, that's a complement for Hyundai. Not so much for Honda. smile
 
I thought the Corolla was a bigger mistake. My mother bought one. Bigger on the outside but cramped inside, can't see out of front, can't see out of the back, poor mileage (<30) and really weird driving dynamics. Poor car overall. I really thought Honda stepped up with the 2006+ civic and to me it seemed that they were continuing the look because it worked for them. Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 
Quote:
Ito reportedly explained that the 2012 Civic was under development during the American financial crisis, which led Honda executives to believe Americans would accept lower-quality cars
WOW, I can't believe they actually said that. I guess it goes without saying that Honda will not be winning the Deming Prize anytime soon.
 
While I value high mechanical and other quality, I could care less about the "expanded features list" that seems to drive today's automobile market. Cars are becoming like the fashion industry. KISS for me, but I feel like I am in the minority.
 
I have had many Honda's over the years and have been drawn to other makes lately as they just look better, perform as well or better in MPG and power output etc. I have always love Honda's for what I couldn't get in other makes...Quality, reliability and performance(or at least the performance feel) along with great MPG. And for small sedans, they were some of the best "tracking" car for highway use, which was where most of our driving was. I use to love their outward vision and interior packaging. Other car makers have certainly cought up in many areas especially with their 4 cyl's and the power and smoothness these 4 bangers now produce. At one time, it was only Honda that produced the smoothness that they did with a 4 cyl, which actually made their V6's not feel all that special. But, it was other areas of performance, packaging, interior design, materials & layout, steering feel and resale value that drew me to Honda's along with their overall solid feel and a vehicle that felt as though I had spent more than I did(even though Honda's are always expensive). I could even rant long and hard as I have in the past about Honda(Toyota too) lack of, not staying way ahead of the pack but, I won't. Although, I expect more!
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
While I value high mechanical and other quality, I could care less about the "expanded features list" that seems to drive today's automobile market. Cars are becoming like the fashion industry. KISS for me, but I feel like I am in the minority.
Absolutely. That plus the fact that so many options are linked together - cant make a vehicle like you want it. And the packages are $$$$, so it isnt really cost savings.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
honda quality???? LOL. Some will say Im biased. But stuff like this just backs up my comments. Accept a lower quality car? Give me a break. Didnt they realize what made people want to buy honda?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias You should give that a read... Since anyone who disagrees with your Honda vitriol is automatically labeled an "apologist", I guess I'll start apologizing... Do you actually believe that by "quality", he was referring to the build quality and structural integrity of the car, or the feature set and styling of the vehicle? Give the follow-up comments, my guess is the latter. Obviously, it's not much worth discussing since you already know the answer, and will view everything though a lens which meets your perspective. I'm not a Honda owner, I haven't owned one for over 20 years, and they make nothing that appeals to me (the TSX wagon was a huge disappointment). But I realize that I'm a Honda apologist for questioning the intent of the statement which has everyone up in arms...
 
I agree with JOD. Alot of people, myself included, just quit replying or choose not to say anything when they read comments like that to avoid the labeling or backlash.
 
I think the term "lower quality" meant the appearance of interior bits etc. There was little mechanical change for full redesign. Same old motor and transmission just different larger vehicle around it. I got a loaner 2012 Subaru Outback while my wife's 2005 Legacy turbo wagon got serviced. Our 2005 Legacy which is previous generation of same model while smaller had a much higher quality feel to it. The materials are much nicer in our 2005. The new Outback like all current Subaru's scream cheapo. The Outback still uses same old motor as the 2005 Legacy btw, new CVT though which worked well. I think its a trend for some makers to jamb more stuff in and grow car and keep price similar. Something has to give.....
 
The proper word would have been "more affordable" rather than "lower quality". The same way as VW lowered the price of their Jetta and Passat. I'm sure their executives are a little more well versed in using appropriate words and never say "lower quality" or "cheaper".
 
Good on Honda for correcting a mistake. The 2012 Civic was a mistake that they needed to fix. I didn't like the 06 redesign, having spent time in my friend's top trim EX model. About the only car from Honda that's impressed me lately has been the Fit. And even that, while a very nice driver's car, is lacking in a few areas. MPG's aren't great, the interior feels cheap although it's held up very well, and the car is fairly noisy overall. It has been the typical Honda reliable, and the interior swallows passengers and cargo like a much bigger car.
 
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