Honda K24 Valvetrain, 135K miles

[Fabulous50s]

That’s what happens when you never do a valve adjustment

Please see post #27.

 

[supton]

I've been thinking about doing a valve adjustment on mine, but since it has the optional self adjusting camshaft, I've been putting it off.

Surprisingly, it doesn't burn much oil at 195k--hard to say, just got an oil leak fixed. Some usage, but not more than a quart over 5k.

 

[Bullwinkle007]

Please see post #27.

Injectors cause this? Burning the cheapest gas you could buy? In mine, I only ran chevron or shell, 1 bottle of Redline fuel cleaner every 5k at OCI, every 15k sprayed a can of intake cleaner down the throttle body.

 

[TomYoung]

I strongly suspect that on these newer (ish) Hondas--and perhaps other engines- a clean overhead tells you nothing about the parts of the engine that are most at risk.

Think back to that teardown video of the K20C4 accord turbo engine that was immaculately clean at 92K miles everywhere-- except the one place that it mattered: the ring pack. Stuck oil ring, high oil consumption, engine was scrapped. And in the process, all that cleanliness and low wear elsewhere in the engine was for naught.

What good is it to have little to no cam wear if your guzzling oil due to a stuck ring?

This is in my mind as I consider the relative value of oils which are known to run very clean. I'm thinking that cleanliness and deposit prevention and removal is arguably now the single most consequential discriminator between oils. Lots of oils can lubricate sufficiently. They can all prevent corrosion very well and all will cool the engine about equally effectively. We've seen engines deliver great UOAs on 20 grade, 30 grade and 40 grade. Even viscosity isn't much of a discriminator in determining engine life.

But the ability to prevent and remove deposits is quite starkly different between oils, and I think we should be placing more emphasis on these attributes (and related ones like volatility) than most other attributes-- perhaps even something like viscosity.

The K 24 is not new enough to be involved in the degraded ring story. Your other points are solid, and say to me change your oil early and often

 

[TomYoung]

We bought it at 60k and 5 years old. It was well taken care of and the interior looked like new when it fell apart. I live in northern Maine where we have 6 months of snow and salt. Vehicles rust away here.

Does that valve train look bad to you for 175k miles?

I have definitely seen better. This is an engine that defies wear and sometimes looks new at 300k

 

[Fabulous50s]

I have definitely seen better. This is an engine that defies wear and sometimes looks new at 300k

This was my wife's car, a lot of short trips and picking up kids/idle time. When the rear suspension rotted away the engine and AWD drive train were flawless. I changed rear diff oil every 60k, as well as transaxle fluid with Honda genuine.

Unknown service prior to us buying it. I ran T6 5w-40 (the darling oil back then) and changed it at 5k OEM filters every change.

Then when it began consuming oil, I dumped whatever synthetic I could in it, this was before I was aware of VRP. However valve guide seals lowered consumption to a reasonable level. That was my point until the fanbois jumped all over me saying all kinds of stuff which I covered.

I was just sharing my personal experience with the K24.

Here is a pic of it just before the rear suspension fell apart, for those who think I don't take care of my vehicles.

 

[Hohn]

This was my wife's car, a lot of short trips and picking up kids/idle time. When the rear suspension rotted away the engine and AWD drive train were flawless. I changed rear diff oil every 60k, as well as transaxle fluid with Honda genuine.

Unknown service prior to us buying it. I ran T6 5w-40 (the darling oil back then) and changed it at 5k OEM filters every change.

Then when it began consuming oil, I dumped whatever synthetic I could in it, this was before I was aware of VRP. However valve guide seals lowered consumption to a reasonable level. That was my point until the fanbois jumped all over me saying all kinds of stuff which I covered.

I was just sharing my personal experience with the K24.

Here is a pic of it just before the rear suspension fell apart, for those who think I don't take care of my vehicles. View attachment 275256

I’m assuming the primary criticism comes from regions far enough outside the rust belt that the posters are ignorant of how impossible it is to win the battle against road salt.

 

[TomYoung]

This was my wife's car, a lot of short trips and picking up kids/idle time. When the rear suspension rotted away the engine and AWD drive train were flawless. I changed rear diff oil every 60k, as well as transaxle fluid with Honda genuine.

Unknown service prior to us buying it. I ran T6 5w-40 (the darling oil back then) and changed it at 5k OEM filters every change.

Then when it began consuming oil, I dumped whatever synthetic I could in it, this was before I was aware of VRP. However valve guide seals lowered consumption to a reasonable level. That was my point until the fanbois jumped all over me saying all kinds of stuff which I covered.

I was just sharing my personal experience with the K24.

Here is a pic of it just before the rear suspension fell apart, for those who think I don't take care of my vehicles. View attachment 275256

Definitely did not mean to imply that you have done anything wrong… you obviously maintain cars well. I might question that choice of thick oil oil, but that is definitely minor in the scope of things. Your car must have started out in a hard life.

 

[TomYoung]

I’m assuming the primary criticism comes from regions far enough outside the rust belt that the posters are ignorant of how impossible it is to win the battle against road salt.

Even in cold states, these CRVs don’t tend to rust anything like that.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Even in cold states, these CRVs don’t tend to rust anything like that.

Did you see what the rest looked like? The car was completly rust free other than that rear areas.

Out local Honda dealer had at least 30 CR-Vs which Honda bought back due to this specific rust area.

I have a buddy who had 2 CR-Vs, his wife's and his. They both were bought back. They bought a new CR-V with the money.

I'm jealous of those who are ignorant of what salt and 6 months of snow do to a vehicle. In fact we still have some snow on the ground, but it's in the mid 40s today.

 

[TomYoung]

Did you see what the rest looked like? The car was completly rust free other than that rear areas.

Out local Honda dealer had at least 30 CR-Vs which Honda bought back due to this specific rust area.

I have a buddy who had 2 CR-Vs, his wife's and his. They both were bought back. They bought a new CR-V with the money.

I'm jealous of those who are ignorant of what salt and 6 months of snow do to a vehicle. In fact we still have some snow on the ground, but it's in the mid 40s today.

I researched it. Honda recalled, repaired or bought back 50,000 such vehicles. We had one in our family, sold to a neighbor and is still going great at 200k plus. No offense intended here, but I am still saying a totaled out year suspension combined with very unusual wear on a k24 raises eyebrows.

 

[Fabulous50s]

I researched it. Honda recalled, repaired or bought back 50,000 such vehicles. We had one in our family, sold to a neighbor and is still going great at 200k plus. No offense intended here, but I am still saying a totaled out year suspension combined with very unusual wear on a k24 raises eyebrows.

If ours hadn't rusted away we would br very likely still driving it. The oil culprit was valve guide seals. Other than brakes and tires, I never put another part in it. Had just under 200k when Honda bought it back.

 

[Starving Electrician]

The K series is beyond fantastic. I need to get some pictures of one of mine under the valve cover. Yes I own more than one lol. If you run even a cheap synthetic, which I do they stay clean. I have 170,000k on my wife's CR-V and the valves are a bit noisy so it needs an adjustment.

I say that to say the conventional oil probably caused the issues.

 

[JRay’07]

The K series is beyond fantastic. I need to get some pictures of one of mine under the valve cover. Yes I own more than one lol. If you run even a cheap synthetic, which I do they stay clean. I have 170,000k on my wife's CR-V and the valves are a bit noisy so it needs an adjustment.

I say that to say the conventional oil probably caused the issues.

Honda does not specify a service classification or synthetic requirement (at least on my K24 they don’t). This leads me to believe that they are easy on oil.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

I researched it. Honda recalled, repaired or bought back 50,000 such vehicles. We had one in our family, sold to a neighbor and is still going great at 200k plus. No offense intended here, but I am still saying a totaled out year suspension combined with very unusual wear on a k24 raises eyebrows.

They didn't repair. They put a brace on it to help keep the trailing arm from ripping off when that rusts away. Hopefully allowing the driver some semblance of control and not crash.

The inspection procedure and to see if you can install the brace involves removing the mounting bolts. If they can't get them off because the welds on the captive nuts are no good, it fails. The Honda buyback is a lot less than the cars value to make it right with a good motor/tranny etc. CRV Owners club has MANY with the issues as well as the NDA's about what happened in the end.

Only possible prevention on many was if you did Fluid film/WoolWax/NH oil etc from early. No regular rubber based undercoats that seal in moisture.

My daughters '08 CRV has 246k, it also has the braces installed. Not a lot of rust but it is visible in areas like that. Rest of car like @Fabulous50s also in great condition, same color even. Daughter loves it and hopes it never goes away.

My wife's old Sequoia that did the ski trips etc for many years and almost 190k was the same type rust issue. Toyota had a recall and were replacing full frames. Mine passed "inspection" as I always tried to wash it down underneath. Toyota sprayed a fluid film/wax version. Not too many years later everything else underneath and body seams were rotting away anyway. Motor, tranny, 4wd, interior, exterior all perfect. Underneath horrendous, everytime I tried to do brakes or other, stuff just crumbled.

On the K24- daughters '08 CRV doesn't burn any. Has some buildup/varnish from before got it. It was my sisters brand new, mostly dealer changes through its life. We got it 5 years and 38k ago. Dealer did valve adjustments at 110k and 208k.

HPL EC30 for a couple rounds and now PCMO 5W-30 for some is slowly cleaning up the almost no flow baffle plate area. When I run out of my stash of other synthetics and HPL quarts it may go to VRP if the vehicle is still around. Right now that is another 20-25k miles away.

This is all from 1qt of HPL with each change for the past 2 years.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

The K series is beyond fantastic. I need to get some pictures of one of mine under the valve cover. Yes I own more than one lol. If you run even a cheap synthetic, which I do they stay clean. I have 170,000k on my wife's CR-V and the valves are a bit noisy so it needs an adjustment.

I say that to say the conventional oil probably caused the issues.

Valves may need adjustment but the Honda valves get tighter and quieter so a bit noisy is probably better.

 

[JRay’07]

Valves may need adjustment but the Honda valves get tighter and quieter so a bit noisy is probably better.

A tappy valve is a happy valve.

 

[JimPghPA]

Valves may need adjustment but the Honda valves get tighter and quieter so a bit noisy is probably better.

The intake valves get loose and noisy, but the exhaust valves get tight and will burn if they get too tight. So noise or no noise does not matter, you can have exhaust get too tight and no intakes making noise. And it only takes one being too tight to cause major problems. If an exhaust valve burns, theres chance a piece will score the cylinder wall thereby totaling the engine.

 

[Starving Electrician]

Valves may need adjustment but the Honda valves get tighter and quieter so a bit noisy is probably better.

Exhaust valves tend to tighten, intake tend to get looser on Honda engines. It's the exhaust getting tight I worry about. The noise just irks me as a fairly capable hobby mechanic.

 

[2strokeNorthstar]

I've been thinking about doing a valve adjustment on mine, but since it has the optional self adjusting camshaft, I've been putting it off.

Surprisingly, it doesn't burn much oil at 195k--hard to say, just got an oil leak fixed. Some usage, but not more than a quart over 5k.

Its not a bad job. Get the correct angled feeler gauges and the valve adjustment screwdrive tool thing. Also a VCG and Hondabond HT if its more than a couple years old. Took me 2-3hrs taking my sweet time and triple checking everything. At 150k-ish all could use a little adjusting. Nothing crazy out of spec and it runs just the same.