I have a 2001 Accord VP (non-V-TEC) 2.3. I plan on doing a timing belt, balance belt and tensioners change this spring and was looking for a few tips. I'm not a mechanic but I do most of my own work and I have done a couple of timing belts on simple applications (Dodge Colts). Will the Accord be much more difficult? Is there a problem using Gates (or other name brand non-OEM) belts? I hate paying hundreds of dollars labor for something I can do myself. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks
Honda Accord timing belt(s) change
- Thread starter pbm
- Start date
- Status
It's a little harder than most because there is an engine mount running through the middle of the belt that needs to come off, and because it has balance shafts. It's also pretty tight in the engine bay, even though the car was available with a V6.
Are you doing the water pump right away as well?
Are you doing the water pump right away as well?
I may not do the water pump because I've done several drain and refills with PEAK global. I've averaged a d/r per 20K so everything looks excellent. I will have approx 85 to 90K when I do the belt change and I've read that a properly maintained water pump should be good for 2 timing belt changes.
Dont be a penny pincher. Do the job properly and change the waterpump. Different tensions from one timing belt to another commonly angers the bearing in many water pumps.
Get your paint pen and mark the crank/cam sprocket. Mark the belt and reproduce the same exact marks on the new belt. NO guess work or alignment issues this way. Out of the thousands of Tbelt jobs I've done I've NEVER had a skipped tooth. After a Tbelt job you shouldn't have to touch or adjust the timing.
The honda is not forgiving if you screw up the T belt alignment. If its off a tooth for a long duration of time you may burn an exhaust valve.
Also buy new tensioner/idler and oil seals (usually you can get away with no seal changes on the first t belt)
Get your paint pen and mark the crank/cam sprocket. Mark the belt and reproduce the same exact marks on the new belt. NO guess work or alignment issues this way. Out of the thousands of Tbelt jobs I've done I've NEVER had a skipped tooth. After a Tbelt job you shouldn't have to touch or adjust the timing.
The honda is not forgiving if you screw up the T belt alignment. If its off a tooth for a long duration of time you may burn an exhaust valve.
Also buy new tensioner/idler and oil seals (usually you can get away with no seal changes on the first t belt)
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alanu
Dont be a penny pincher. Do the job properly and change the waterpump. Different tensions from one timing belt to another commonly angers the bearing in many water pumps.
Very true. I've run into this with alternators too. Just releasing the tension, replacing the belt and using the exact same tension with a spring loaded tensioner, the alternator bearings go out within 50 miles.
Dont be a penny pincher. Do the job properly and change the waterpump. Different tensions from one timing belt to another commonly angers the bearing in many water pumps.
Very true. I've run into this with alternators too. Just releasing the tension, replacing the belt and using the exact same tension with a spring loaded tensioner, the alternator bearings go out within 50 miles.
Water pump is a no brainer. Buy the Hoda OEM and you'll be happy another 8 years.
Balance belt is never changed. I know many, including myself that never touch it .... why? It is under no stress or pressure. You'll see.
Replace all seals. They are cheap.
I do NOT like Gates for Honda.... Dayco which some frown on is a better fit than Gates. Again, Honda OEM is the way to go, the belts will/should be made in Japan if you go this route.
+1 on the Peak Global ... I very good coolant.
Balance belt is never changed. I know many, including myself that never touch it .... why? It is under no stress or pressure. You'll see.
Replace all seals. They are cheap.
I do NOT like Gates for Honda.... Dayco which some frown on is a better fit than Gates. Again, Honda OEM is the way to go, the belts will/should be made in Japan if you go this route.
+1 on the Peak Global ... I very good coolant.
I did a slightly earlier model with 2.2 and it was tough. I did it in a driveway. The hardest part for me, even more than the confined working space on the side, was the crank pulley bolt was on very tight. I had to make a large hex adapter with a socket pass through hole to go in the pulley recess. I had access to a machine shop at the time. The hex had an extension to hit the ground. It took several feet of breaker bar to finally get it loose, with a very loud crack. Use USA made socket tools I suggest. I see they actually sell such a hex adapter now for the purpose. I put in a new water pump and belts/parts from Honda. They were actually less in price than aftermarket at the time. After all the work, wasn't going to save on parts. Maybe your model is changed at the crank pulley.
Last edited:
After putting the new belts on turn the engine over [by hand]two complete revolutions and make sure all the timing marks are line up.
Well, the guy's handle is 'HondaMan', and that indicates a high interest and possible store of information.
So that would sway my balance belt considerations more than most.
So that would sway my balance belt considerations more than most.
Hey, you're in there, it's cheap, and adds a few minutes to the job. If it breaks,and takes out the T-belt all was for not.
Originally Posted By: RH+G
Wanna save some money just leave the balancer belt off.
It also runs the oil pump on that model
I did the belts and a water pump on a customers Accord last Wednesday. Book time is 4.1 hrs. Took me a whole 8 hrs.
The mark on the balance shaft is very hard to see between the body of the car and the engine. To line up the oil pump you remove a bolt on the back and stick a screwdriver into the hole which locks the oil pump in place.
And as already mentioned the bolt for the crank pully was very hard to remove. I started with my IR231 impact (425 ft lbs)and it wouldn't do it. Switched to my Mac impact with 625 ft lbs and it just rattled.
BTW we have a 200 gallon air tank and 3/4 pipe feeding 3/8 hose so thats not the problem.
I had to drag out my 3/4 Earthquake impact with 1400 ft lbs and it's special hose to get that bolt off.
Wanna save some money just leave the balancer belt off.
It also runs the oil pump on that model
I did the belts and a water pump on a customers Accord last Wednesday. Book time is 4.1 hrs. Took me a whole 8 hrs.
The mark on the balance shaft is very hard to see between the body of the car and the engine. To line up the oil pump you remove a bolt on the back and stick a screwdriver into the hole which locks the oil pump in place.
And as already mentioned the bolt for the crank pully was very hard to remove. I started with my IR231 impact (425 ft lbs)and it wouldn't do it. Switched to my Mac impact with 625 ft lbs and it just rattled.
BTW we have a 200 gallon air tank and 3/4 pipe feeding 3/8 hose so thats not the problem.
I had to drag out my 3/4 Earthquake impact with 1400 ft lbs and it's special hose to get that bolt off.
Take two kits are Genuine Honda, but they are missing a few parts. You'll have to ask the seller to add the additional items to your order.
This one needs the tensioners and the gaskets:
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/_Car-Truck-P...romfsbZQQ_fxdZ1
This one has everything except the tensioners and the drive belts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-ACC...%3A1|240%3A1318
I'm sure either seller could add the items that you needed to kit.
These two kits are OEM, not Genuine Honda:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truc...%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truc...%3A1|240%3A1318
This one needs the tensioners and the gaskets:
http://motors.shop.ebay.com/_Car-Truck-P...romfsbZQQ_fxdZ1
This one has everything except the tensioners and the drive belts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-ACC...%3A1|240%3A1318
I'm sure either seller could add the items that you needed to kit.
These two kits are OEM, not Genuine Honda:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truc...%3A1|240%3A1318
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/_Car-Truc...%3A1|240%3A1318
Just change it.
Carefully paint pen everything. Paint a mark on the oil pump orientation, pulley and belt. Do the same for the crank and cam pulley. The Tbelt and balance shaft belt uses 1 bolt/nut to tighten both tensioner pulleys. ITs a real [censored] design. I often find the bolt on the Tbelt tensioner pulley is missing (perhaps a TSB to remove?). Just make sure you have a nice snug tension on the 2 belts. Old mans rule of thumb is have the belt tight enough so you can only rotate it 90degrees with good effort (longest staight part of the tbelt). For the balance shaft belt just have it snug.
Things to consider:
Valve cover gasket set, all of the drive belts (ac/alt/ps), Cam seal, crank seal, oil pump seal, preferably elastomeric silicon for the corners of the head where the valve cover gaskets meet.
IT might get tricky to put the oil seal on the oil pump and crank seal.
Use whatever japanese made water pump. I dont give a rats [censored] about "must get" honda OE Water pumps. If you go to a shop that has a Worldpac account you can get everything to OE WP to aisin, NPW or GMB. They are all good waterpumps and you will not have issues.
IIRC gates is an OE supplier for Honda. Use whatever you fancy and you will not have issues. From Continental, Gates, Dayco etc they all do the job well for the duration of time for next interval change.
I can easily do the job within time allotted but if your not familiar with this intermediate skill level Tbelt job take ALOT of time.
Make sure after you align everthing properly rotate the crank once or twice and double check the belt tension.
Carefully paint pen everything. Paint a mark on the oil pump orientation, pulley and belt. Do the same for the crank and cam pulley. The Tbelt and balance shaft belt uses 1 bolt/nut to tighten both tensioner pulleys. ITs a real [censored] design. I often find the bolt on the Tbelt tensioner pulley is missing (perhaps a TSB to remove?). Just make sure you have a nice snug tension on the 2 belts. Old mans rule of thumb is have the belt tight enough so you can only rotate it 90degrees with good effort (longest staight part of the tbelt). For the balance shaft belt just have it snug.
Things to consider:
Valve cover gasket set, all of the drive belts (ac/alt/ps), Cam seal, crank seal, oil pump seal, preferably elastomeric silicon for the corners of the head where the valve cover gaskets meet.
IT might get tricky to put the oil seal on the oil pump and crank seal.
Use whatever japanese made water pump. I dont give a rats [censored] about "must get" honda OE Water pumps. If you go to a shop that has a Worldpac account you can get everything to OE WP to aisin, NPW or GMB. They are all good waterpumps and you will not have issues.
IIRC gates is an OE supplier for Honda. Use whatever you fancy and you will not have issues. From Continental, Gates, Dayco etc they all do the job well for the duration of time for next interval change.
I can easily do the job within time allotted but if your not familiar with this intermediate skill level Tbelt job take ALOT of time.
Make sure after you align everthing properly rotate the crank once or twice and double check the belt tension.
Honda timing belt failures are rare. Quite a few people well exceed the 105k interval and they do not experience any problems.
pbm,
I've done this job on the 2.3L Accord numerous times, so I wanted to add a few points.
Crankshaft holding tool - google SP Tools 60100A and you'll get many hits. The tool runs around $50. Buy it & don't look back if you are doing this job yourself. SP stands for Schely Products.
Even the Haynes manual shows using a strap wrench to hold the CS pully. They are nuts. This SP tool, so similar, is a MUST HAVE. Torque on that bolt is 181 ft lbs.
You'll also need two 1/2 inch breaker bars, and two lengths of pipe. I think mine are 12" and 18". You'll also need some 1/2 inch extensions. My experience says that you'll need impact wrench quality extensions - not regular duty. Once you set all the tools up & put your full body weight on that breaker bar & pipe, you'll see what I mean if you don't have impact extensions. At times I have even used a propane tourch to heat the bolt for a minute or so prior to trying to remove it. Once you get this bolt off, the rest of the job is all downhill.
A post above mentioned they sometimes found a missing timing belt tensioner? This is impossible. He must have his cars confused. The same posted mentions snugging up the belt to proper tension. This is also wrong. On the balancer belt, the spring provides the proper tension. On the timing belt, the manual (Honda or Haynes) has very specific instructions on how to attain final TB tension. Follow the book. There simply is no *snugging it up* as he describes.
Balancer belt - just replace it. The Honda part number is 13405-PAA-A03 and wholesale price is $15.76. Why on earth would you not replace it? And someone earlier said leave it off? I hope that was a joke.
A good source for OEM Honda parts, great prices, and quick shipping is Majestic Honda located in Rhode Island. Website - http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com. I have used them with much success for years now.
You asked about the interval - yes it is realistic. 105K or 7 years is what Honda states. You are due by years if not by mileage.
Several opinions offered here to you on seals ... I'll only say that I have them on hand, but at the first TB change - 105K - I personally do not change them unless I see one seeping or leaking. To this point, I've never seen one leaking. Again, your call.
At that mileage, I always do timing belt, balancer belt, water pump, plug wires, plugs (irridiums - and yes they are expensive - $12 each or so) PCV valve, spark plug tube seals, both power steering and alt/AC belts, VC gasket, and clean the throttle body. Car will be good for another 100K.
Oh - and you'll have to remove the underside splash pan to do this job. You'll most likely break a few of those push-type clips -- be prepared with a couple of replacments as you are buying the parts you need.
Takes me about 6 solid hours. Someone ealier said they could do the book time - no way I could.
Good luck on the job!
Steve
I've done this job on the 2.3L Accord numerous times, so I wanted to add a few points.
Crankshaft holding tool - google SP Tools 60100A and you'll get many hits. The tool runs around $50. Buy it & don't look back if you are doing this job yourself. SP stands for Schely Products.
Even the Haynes manual shows using a strap wrench to hold the CS pully. They are nuts. This SP tool, so similar, is a MUST HAVE. Torque on that bolt is 181 ft lbs.
You'll also need two 1/2 inch breaker bars, and two lengths of pipe. I think mine are 12" and 18". You'll also need some 1/2 inch extensions. My experience says that you'll need impact wrench quality extensions - not regular duty. Once you set all the tools up & put your full body weight on that breaker bar & pipe, you'll see what I mean if you don't have impact extensions. At times I have even used a propane tourch to heat the bolt for a minute or so prior to trying to remove it. Once you get this bolt off, the rest of the job is all downhill.
A post above mentioned they sometimes found a missing timing belt tensioner? This is impossible. He must have his cars confused. The same posted mentions snugging up the belt to proper tension. This is also wrong. On the balancer belt, the spring provides the proper tension. On the timing belt, the manual (Honda or Haynes) has very specific instructions on how to attain final TB tension. Follow the book. There simply is no *snugging it up* as he describes.
Balancer belt - just replace it. The Honda part number is 13405-PAA-A03 and wholesale price is $15.76. Why on earth would you not replace it? And someone earlier said leave it off? I hope that was a joke.
A good source for OEM Honda parts, great prices, and quick shipping is Majestic Honda located in Rhode Island. Website - http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com. I have used them with much success for years now.
You asked about the interval - yes it is realistic. 105K or 7 years is what Honda states. You are due by years if not by mileage.
Several opinions offered here to you on seals ... I'll only say that I have them on hand, but at the first TB change - 105K - I personally do not change them unless I see one seeping or leaking. To this point, I've never seen one leaking. Again, your call.
At that mileage, I always do timing belt, balancer belt, water pump, plug wires, plugs (irridiums - and yes they are expensive - $12 each or so) PCV valve, spark plug tube seals, both power steering and alt/AC belts, VC gasket, and clean the throttle body. Car will be good for another 100K.
Oh - and you'll have to remove the underside splash pan to do this job. You'll most likely break a few of those push-type clips -- be prepared with a couple of replacments as you are buying the parts you need.
Takes me about 6 solid hours. Someone ealier said they could do the book time - no way I could.
Good luck on the job!
Steve
Originally Posted By: Market525
pbm,
I've done this job on the 2.3L Accord numerous times, so I wanted to add a few points.
Crankshaft holding tool - google SP Tools 60100A and you'll get many hits. The tool runs around $50. Buy it & don't look back if you are doing this job yourself. SP stands for Schely Products.
Even the Haynes manual shows using a strap wrench to hold the CS pully. They are nuts. This SP tool, so similar, is a MUST HAVE. Torque on that bolt is 181 ft lbs.
You'll also need two 1/2 inch breaker bars, and two lengths of pipe. I think mine are 12" and 18". You'll also need some 1/2 inch extensions. My experience says that you'll need impact wrench quality extensions - not regular duty. Once you set all the tools up & put your full body weight on that breaker bar & pipe, you'll see what I mean if you don't have impact extensions. At times I have even used a propane tourch to heat the bolt for a minute or so prior to trying to remove it. Once you get this bolt off, the rest of the job is all downhill.
A post above mentioned they sometimes found a missing timing belt tensioner? This is impossible. He must have his cars confused. The same posted mentions snugging up the belt to proper tension. This is also wrong. On the balancer belt, the spring provides the proper tension. On the timing belt, the manual (Honda or Haynes) has very specific instructions on how to attain final TB tension. Follow the book. There simply is no *snugging it up* as he describes.
Balancer belt - just replace it. The Honda part number is 13405-PAA-A03 and wholesale price is $15.76. Why on earth would you not replace it? And someone earlier said leave it off? I hope that was a joke.
A good source for OEM Honda parts, great prices, and quick shipping is Majestic Honda located in Rhode Island. Website - http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com. I have used them with much success for years now.
You asked about the interval - yes it is realistic. 105K or 7 years is what Honda states. You are due by years if not by mileage.
Several opinions offered here to you on seals ... I'll only say that I have them on hand, but at the first TB change - 105K - I personally do not change them unless I see one seeping or leaking. To this point, I've never seen one leaking. Again, your call.
At that mileage, I always do timing belt, balancer belt, water pump, plug wires, plugs (irridiums - and yes they are expensive - $12 each or so) PCV valve, spark plug tube seals, both power steering and alt/AC belts, VC gasket, and clean the throttle body. Car will be good for another 100K.
Oh - and you'll have to remove the underside splash pan to do this job. You'll most likely break a few of those push-type clips -- be prepared with a couple of replacments as you are buying the parts you need.
Takes me about 6 solid hours. Someone ealier said they could do the book time - no way I could.
Good luck on the job!
Steve
You've mis read my post. The bolt I am describing is bolt the secures the tensioner. The tensioner is NOT missing. The small 10mm bolt that hold the tensioner in a certain position is what I see missing alot.
I beg to differ on the belt tension you've described as "wrong". If you rely on the 2 little spings (each spring for each tensioner)you'll have a very very loose timing belt and balance shaft belt. Infact the balance shaft belt's "tensioning spring" is EXTREMELY loose from new. Any experienced auto tech would agree with me that using a spring as the "guage" for tension is Ridiculous.
I dont know one professional auto tech owning a timing belt tensioner guage. Experience dictates never to use a "spring" to assure proper tension.
Your reference to the haynes manual already indicates questionable information. Haynes is one of the most poor references you can use. Mitchell on demand has cost my bro/my shop over 15,000 CDN from day one to updates. Not a 20 dollar manual printed on recycled paper.
People can take info on the net with a grain of salt. I have no benefits typing info to help others. I hope my many years of experience helps a noob.
A full on job with seals, waterpump, vc gasket, tbelt, balance shaft belt, drive belts etc etc can easily be done within 4.5 hours with no shortcuts. I take pride in my work and customers do not come back. Experience and knowledge differentiates a good mechanic to a not so good.
I fell off my chair when i read someone using the springs as the "proper" tension. Little knowledge is a dangerous tool. Market525 be careful with your weapon.
pbm,
I've done this job on the 2.3L Accord numerous times, so I wanted to add a few points.
Crankshaft holding tool - google SP Tools 60100A and you'll get many hits. The tool runs around $50. Buy it & don't look back if you are doing this job yourself. SP stands for Schely Products.
Even the Haynes manual shows using a strap wrench to hold the CS pully. They are nuts. This SP tool, so similar, is a MUST HAVE. Torque on that bolt is 181 ft lbs.
You'll also need two 1/2 inch breaker bars, and two lengths of pipe. I think mine are 12" and 18". You'll also need some 1/2 inch extensions. My experience says that you'll need impact wrench quality extensions - not regular duty. Once you set all the tools up & put your full body weight on that breaker bar & pipe, you'll see what I mean if you don't have impact extensions. At times I have even used a propane tourch to heat the bolt for a minute or so prior to trying to remove it. Once you get this bolt off, the rest of the job is all downhill.
A post above mentioned they sometimes found a missing timing belt tensioner? This is impossible. He must have his cars confused. The same posted mentions snugging up the belt to proper tension. This is also wrong. On the balancer belt, the spring provides the proper tension. On the timing belt, the manual (Honda or Haynes) has very specific instructions on how to attain final TB tension. Follow the book. There simply is no *snugging it up* as he describes.
Balancer belt - just replace it. The Honda part number is 13405-PAA-A03 and wholesale price is $15.76. Why on earth would you not replace it? And someone earlier said leave it off? I hope that was a joke.
A good source for OEM Honda parts, great prices, and quick shipping is Majestic Honda located in Rhode Island. Website - http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com. I have used them with much success for years now.
You asked about the interval - yes it is realistic. 105K or 7 years is what Honda states. You are due by years if not by mileage.
Several opinions offered here to you on seals ... I'll only say that I have them on hand, but at the first TB change - 105K - I personally do not change them unless I see one seeping or leaking. To this point, I've never seen one leaking. Again, your call.
At that mileage, I always do timing belt, balancer belt, water pump, plug wires, plugs (irridiums - and yes they are expensive - $12 each or so) PCV valve, spark plug tube seals, both power steering and alt/AC belts, VC gasket, and clean the throttle body. Car will be good for another 100K.
Oh - and you'll have to remove the underside splash pan to do this job. You'll most likely break a few of those push-type clips -- be prepared with a couple of replacments as you are buying the parts you need.
Takes me about 6 solid hours. Someone ealier said they could do the book time - no way I could.
Good luck on the job!
Steve
You've mis read my post. The bolt I am describing is bolt the secures the tensioner. The tensioner is NOT missing. The small 10mm bolt that hold the tensioner in a certain position is what I see missing alot.
I beg to differ on the belt tension you've described as "wrong". If you rely on the 2 little spings (each spring for each tensioner)you'll have a very very loose timing belt and balance shaft belt. Infact the balance shaft belt's "tensioning spring" is EXTREMELY loose from new. Any experienced auto tech would agree with me that using a spring as the "guage" for tension is Ridiculous.
I dont know one professional auto tech owning a timing belt tensioner guage. Experience dictates never to use a "spring" to assure proper tension.
Your reference to the haynes manual already indicates questionable information. Haynes is one of the most poor references you can use. Mitchell on demand has cost my bro/my shop over 15,000 CDN from day one to updates. Not a 20 dollar manual printed on recycled paper.
People can take info on the net with a grain of salt. I have no benefits typing info to help others. I hope my many years of experience helps a noob.
A full on job with seals, waterpump, vc gasket, tbelt, balance shaft belt, drive belts etc etc can easily be done within 4.5 hours with no shortcuts. I take pride in my work and customers do not come back. Experience and knowledge differentiates a good mechanic to a not so good.
I fell off my chair when i read someone using the springs as the "proper" tension. Little knowledge is a dangerous tool. Market525 be careful with your weapon.
Last edited:
- Status